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Post by Boaster on Dec 23, 2005 14:35:06 GMT -6
I'd like to add a bit of complexity to the game and ofcourse simplicity as well. First, I would like to add more playable races. Secondly, I would like to capability to be any race or class and serve a particular faith. Third, I would like different kinds of Physical Resistances. Finally, I would like the ability to create Quests like LOMSE's Legends of Urak Pack.
I have mentioned before about how cool it would be if we could be an Elven Fire Warrior. He would not be a Giant Elf. He would just be an Elf Warrior who worships Fire and earn himself natural Fire resistances. There would also be other factors in mixing and matching races with faiths. For example, selecting Fire will grant you more Hit Points and being Elf will grant you more Dexterity. By the same token, being Fire will cause you to have a lack of Dexteritty and being Elf will penalize your Hit Points. So somewhere in there you can find a way to boost your stats to new heights or find a way to neutralize any Racial or Faith based penalities with bonuses.
Additionally, I would like to see ALL playable races with:
Racial Modifiers Human: Includes Amazon, Barbarian and Archon - Amazon: (Increased Dexterity, Penalized Strength) - Barbarian: (Increased Strength, Penalized Wisdom) - Archon: (No Bonus) Half-Elf: (No bonus) Elf: (Bonus Dexterity, Penalized Health). Halfling: (Bonus Dexterity, Penalized Combat Speed). Dwarf: (Bonus Strength, Penalized Combat Speed). Centaur: (Bonus Health Recovery and Combat Speed, Penalized Mana and Wisdom). Faerie: (Bonus Dexterity and Combat Speed, Penalized Strength and Health). Giant: (Bonus Strength and Health, Penalized Dexterity and Combat Speed). Orc: (Bonus Strength and Combat Speed, Penalized Wisdom and Mana). Half-Orc: (Bonus Strength, Penalized Wisdom). Goblin: (Bonus Dexterity, Penalized Strength). Troll: (Special Bonus Combat Regeneration, Penalized Wisdom and Mana). Lizardman: (Bonus Health, Penalized Mana). Drow (Dark Elf): (Bonus Strength and Dexterity, Penalized Health and Health Recovery). Duergar (Dark Dwarf): (Bonus Strength and Health, Penalized Dexterity and Health Recovery).
Faith based modifiers Air: Improved Combat Speed, Decreased Strength. Chaos: Improved Health Regeneration, Decreased Armor Death: Improved Attack, Decreased Health Regeneration Earth: Improved Wisdom and Strength, Decreased Dexterity and Combat Speed. Fire: Improved Health and Strength, Decreased Dexterity and Combat Speed. Life: Improved Dexterity, Decreased Health. Order: No bonus. Water: Improved Mana, decreased Strength.
Just a reminder, these are rough ideas.
Also, I'd like the ability to choose which weapons my characters will use.
Now, I would like to see different kinds of resistances.
Missile Resistances: Piercing Slashing Crushing
Melee Resistances: Piercing Slashing Crushing
Examples: Rock Hurlers would be Missile-Crushing. Fae Slingers would be Missile-Crushing. Crossbowmen would be Missile-Piercing. Assassins would be Missile-Slashing.
Footmen would be Melee-Crushing. Berserkers would be Melee-Slashing. Lizardmen would be Melee-Piercing Halberdiers would be Melee-Piercing/Slashing alternating.
The idea with halbediers being Piercing/Slashing alternating would be an option for their unit controls. Since Halberds are an Axe/Spear hybrid, it can be used differently. For example you can have one group of Halberdiers only do piercing. Another group only do Slashing attacks. While yet another have the "alternate attack" option. This adds some complexity, but will be limited to certain weapons.
Finally, I'd like for their to be a built in way for players to create their own quests with conditions, limits, and objectives.
These are just my ideas.
Other ideas are: Neutral Merchants/Mercenaries which can be bartered with at Outposts in remote locations. Then keep the Hostile Mercenaries which randomly sack villages, capture your resource buildings, attack scouts, etc.
Just a long list of ideas.
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Post by tem on Jan 4, 2006 14:26:25 GMT -6
what i'd like to see is a way to combine spells of faiths when you conquer a faith. what i mean; let's say i'm death and i just captured Order. i'd like to be able to have Order-Death fusion spells.
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Post by Boaster on Jan 4, 2006 19:28:27 GMT -6
what i'd like to see is a way to combine spells of faiths when you conquer a faith. what i mean; let's say i'm death and i just captured Order. i'd like to be able to have Order-Death fusion spells. Hmm, fusion spells. That is interesting. I've mentioned before in a post in a far far away forum, about class only spells, faith only spells, and race only spells. Where if you pick the right wizard class, faith, and race you could have access to certain spells. Then there will be the universal spells such as the bolt spells.
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Post by tem on Jan 4, 2006 20:27:40 GMT -6
yeah, i read that. i find that a good idea too although it'd also be nice to have fusion spells. *imagines Crusade combined with Vissage of Horror*
another thing i'd like to have is ability to transfer followers to a different capital if you have more than one.
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Post by Alasdair on Jan 19, 2006 17:13:03 GMT -6
The world needs to be made bigger...there should be a limit on how many mercenaries you can hire per term (so you can't do the "Send millions of waves of mercenaries" thing at anybody near your capital)...cavalry need to move faster compared to infantry...max levels need to increase...more spells and units are always nice...make taking a capital more interesting (siege weapons and the like would be awesome), give units the ability to make a formation like in Age of Empires, and some others more classes would be cool.
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Post by Boaster on Jan 19, 2006 18:47:23 GMT -6
I think the fact that siege weapons are out of the gmae is a good thing, because this is a magic based game. I would think, that with the current structure of LOMSE, a siege unit would have to take up 3 spaces where normal units would be.
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Post by RoamMaster on Jun 24, 2006 13:43:26 GMT -6
You should start out with a few more resource points like maybe ten of each. You should always be allowed one free scout. I think mages start out with too little mana, they need at least two or three more as their base. Chaos needs major improvement. Their magic sucks, their missle sucks, and their LC is mediocore. At least if their melee units were cheap; but no. As a result I find Chaos to be by far the most difficult faith to play as. Aside from raw resources they aren't even a useful asset. They even get get a bad scout! Why they decided to create a whipping boy(perhaps they favored Order?) is beyond me. But if a sequel is ever made they need to fix that. And why even make Level 9 gold mines? By the time you can conquer one you don't even need it anymore. Much like in the mod Champions should be able to get half again as many levels over a common lord. Lords should be a little more powerful but cost more. When a marauding party is clearly weaker than you, they shouldn't attack. It doesn't make sense. The whole trade buildings for units in barter should be elminated. I think we all abuse the here's all my buildings for your units; thanks! now I'm off to go liberate your Great Temple! Though we all do it, the abilty to trade buildings for anything other than other buildings should go. When a Champion runs away they should lose a lot more fame than they do now. The Great Temple should produce more fame than it does now. Begging for money should cost fame on a curve. Something like turn 10 1 gold -3 fame. Turn 240 1 gold -9 fame. And finally it shouldn't cost one follower to create a three man unit it should cost 3!
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Post by Boaster on Jun 24, 2006 15:50:43 GMT -6
While you make a strong case on a few things, I would like to comment on what you have said.
Bartering with the AI Trading buildings for units, I see what you mean. I think the AI's ability to measure worth of units, buildings and spells in trade should be increased.
Chaos vs Order Chaos is actually stronger than you might think. In the original LOMSE, Chaos' had all of their power focused in their magic. However, in my LOMSE mod, GS5, everything has been panned out well (at least I think so).
Great Temples In the GS5 mod, Great Temples will increase their fame +1 every 7th turn. Also, Fame will increase by +½ every 7th turn. Perhaps this is something that should be considered for a new LOM.
Level 9 Gold mines I'd rather have one Level 9 gold mine as opposed to nine Level 1 gold mines. Marauders would just come by and scoop those up. And to defend one Level 9 gold mine is much, much easier than defending nine Level 1 gold mines.
Champions vs Lords Ofcourse Lords should be stronger than Champions, and they are stronger. In the standard version of LOM(SE), Lords' maximum level is 12 and Champions' maximum level is 10. In my mod, Lords go up to 15 and Champions stay with 10 levels.
Mana In the standard version of LOM, Mages do have low mana and many spells require a lot of mana. In my mod, spells and mana are set to effective and appropriate levels.
Magistrate: Fame for Gold I never really thought of going to the magistrate as "begging" for money. I always saw it more as "advertising" or using your Lord's name to help merchants sell their products (sort of the same thing). But that would be interesting, to increase the fame needed to recieve gold as time goes by.
Followers and Military units If Champions were 1 follower, and military units were 3 followers, no one would train military followers, players would just hire them strictly as mercenaries.
Lords should be a little more powerful but cost more. As far as the Lord Editor or gold, ale and crystals?
When a Champion runs away they should lose a lot more fame than they do now. AGLEED! This should be more relative to Level, Class, Faith as well. Perhaps Level X10 fame lost for Champions and Level X15 fame lost for Lords.
Glad to see a new name around the forums. Come back sometime.
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Post by Atma on Jun 27, 2006 14:50:07 GMT -6
Not really sure what this would accomplish, you don't really spend anything except crystals early on, and you get quite a bit out of the dungeons you have to beat.
Couldn't hurt I guess. Walking around is a pain if you don't know where the dungeons are.
Not sure what to think of this... but can't see this hurting either.
I'll agree on this point: Chaos needs *something*. Their barracks units are the bread and butter of the army, but they are carbon copies of Fire units (or the other way around...). Since it's their main selling point, you have the choice of Fire or Chaos to get those units. So therefore, your choice will be determined by what else each faith has... and, as it happens, Fire beats Chaos is pretty much every area... Missiles, Creatures, and arguably... magic. Chaos magic isn't that bad - they've got Blades of Fury, Vortex, and Reincarnation (use it on dead Goblins sometime, fun stuff!). It's just that their early magic can't really compete with Fire's early spells. Their Mid-range spells are about on par with each other, while Fire's late spells... pretty much obliterate anything else out there.
Their tiger Warrior pretty much beats the Fire Giant, but that is simply not enough to choose Chaos over Fire, at least not strategically.
Under the normal settings, yeah, I can kind of agree. But a properly designed map will have you clearing those buildings around turn 20. I've set out to make a map that allows for more competetive play, and doesn't allow you to go around taking over every faith. In order to accomplish this, extra resource buildings were needed. So I made a ton of extra Gen Brewery, Crystal, and Gold buildings, with this level spread: 1, 2, 3, 5, 5, 6, 6, 8, 8. It still manages to be challenging, but enables you to beat your level 11 encounter around turn 30ish.
The only problems are crowding, and making good arrangements and distances. Half the faiths only have 10 movement points for one of their default units...
Works for me
Not sure what you mean - lords don't cost anything.
Absolutely. A marauder would favor harrassment tactics - if anything, they should only take your buildings, and even retreat if attacked with superior forces.
[Laugh out Loud], yeah, I totally agree. The whole fealty and barter system is pretty messed up. You aren't exactly losing anything if you're just going to take them over anyway.
And if for some reason you need to boost their opinion after the deal, just give them all of your spells. Even if for some reason it isn't enough, and they start a fight with you, you haven't lost anything, and they haven't gained anything.
The AI should be able to tell if you're just bribing them to get their temple, especially if it's your first time meeting or dealing with them. If you dump a bunch of gold into their lap upon arriving in their territory, it should only affect their opinion a bit, if at all. After all, wouldn't you be suspicious of some stranger coming up to you, and putting 1,000 bucks in your hand?
Trading should be all about building a relationship gradually over time. A faith would have a list of things they wanted, as well as things they are willing to give up. You would make trades according to this, although you would perhaps still be able to make other trades - you just wouldn't necessarily get them as easily.
Currently, equitable trades aren't rewarded at all, only uneven trades are. An equitable trade should make both parties relations grow rather than doing nothing.
Makes sense
Hmmm... how about a curvature? The longer the great temple is free, the greater the rate of fame you recieve.
Perhaps, but not to that degree. Fame is probably the only one of the trades that's worth making in the marketplace.
Personally, I thought of it as taxing the people.
I'd have to agree with Mantera. Unless there was some sort of other reduction to make up for this, it would make plain units much less desirable.
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Post by roammaster on Jun 28, 2006 9:20:45 GMT -6
First off, all of the things I listed were in reference to the original LOMSE I've never played the standard version, and I haven't played this mod (yet). I had problems with it and I came back to report a bug but then saw I was missing the patch (dumb). Anyway I guess I wasn't clear on some things, for one I had the terms "champions and lords" mixed up. I was thinking the main character was a Champion and the lesser units were called Lords(it has been about a year since I played the game, my CD isn't in great shape). I've never been able to beat the game on hard as Chaos and I can't imagine how its possible without a custom map. And the problem with their magic is it does become powerful(eventually) but at first it is the single weakest. To me Chaos was developed to be an AI faith. When I fight against computer Chaos they do pretty well stacked up against the other faiths, but I can't see winning an online game with them. Remember I haven't played the mod yet, but I will tonight. It sounds like your mod fixes the Fame from Great Temple problem. Its great that your mod fixes the problem between lords and champions. Its also great that you add more mana for mages. And you put the Retreat penalty into just about perfect numbers. Its too bad you weren't a paid consultant in the development :) True if you oversimplify, what I meant was cap them at level 6 or 7. I mean you can take on a level 6 gold mine within a week of conquering your Great Temple, level 9 forces you to wait until you're so strong that you probably are in excess of resources, or you could go take out somebody's capitol for the same cost in losses. Well I'd like to take credit for a new perspective but I got that straight from the instruction manual, when both of you quoted me I started wondering if I was remembering wrong(it has been 7 years), so I hunted it up and sure enough page 71 says: Lords should be a little more powerful but cost more. As far as the Lord Editor or gold, ale and crystals? Sorry that was my Lords>>>Champions thing. What I meant to say is that things like attack and defense should be a few points higher for Champions, but they should cost quite a bit more Gold and Ale to hire like about %40. Well I was being a little conservative I would have wanted twenty, but I figured it would get shot down. Really the reason I was thinking twenty is for when you play as Life, Air, or Water as a Mage on Hard. There are some encounters that would be a lot less risky if you could just afford a Dryad, Air or Water Elemental(I assume that this holds true for Fire as well but I don't play as Fire on Hard). But you just don't quite have enough resources to buy one, and everybody is ALMOST leveled up but not quite enough to beat a level 4 encounter without it. I've had this happen several times where I've had to brave said encounter, lose a unit and have to reload. Maybe this is just me playing ineptly? Anyway it would help ME a lot, but it might not be a good idea I don't know. And I was referring to a random map, not a custom map, I know you can play a custom map that does away with this problem. About the Bartering: Yeah I've gotten so used to handing all my spells over to everybody except Balkoth(I only give him the crappy spells) that I forgot to even mention it, believe it or not I never even thought of handing over my buildings for about the first six months so I store it differently in my mind. I do think you should get about %50 more followers than at present time, remember I was referring to the non-modded game. In that you have a max of 32 followers you can use, I often have excesses so I would still see a reason to charge three followers, though to make sure I'm clear I think the prices in gold and Ale should remain the same, but cost two additional followers, as long as its synced with the increase of new followers. And I would also change the upkeep of Mercs to reflect their experience level. I can tell its not a popular idea, but that's why I wasn't brave enough to try and mod the game myself not enough between the ears. Edit: Deleted irrelevant text.
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Post by Boaster on Jun 28, 2006 10:16:19 GMT -6
In the GS5, some Level 12 Dungeons will carry 12 Legendary creatures. Most of the Level 12 Dungeons, if not all, will carry the same repeating Legendary Creature.
And you're right, this is not an LOMSE board. But feel free to continue posting ideas for LOM2 here and LOMSE mods in the other forum.
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Post by Atma on Jun 28, 2006 19:30:55 GMT -6
Funny you should say that, because I just realized it IS actually capped at 7 . You'll only see a level 9 mine/brewery on a custom map. On Chaos: It's not hard at all to play them on default gs and hard - you just have to do things right. That, and you have to watch out for level 1 dungeons on crack - at least one of them contains a pair of level 4 panthers (I think if you play on medium, it increases the amount of panthers even more, making it worse than hard). If you get one of those before you're prepared, just go Last Save, and don't bother; find something else to fight. Pick the warrior, and make sure you use the parry "bait" strategy. His defense is low, but the high attack makes up for it when you parry. Get the warrior to at least level 3, preferably 4, and you shouldn't have too much trouble cleaning the Temple without losses, and in a timely manner to boot. I tested this earlier today, and pulled off a level 3 victory on turn 6. It took a couple tries, but good tactics saw the battle through. On LOM2: I was thinking about the problems of LOM... mainly, the big wait between turns. It's not a problem offline, as the AI moves are calculated automatically and quickly, but multiplayer leaves an inactive player with nothing much to do except wait. Short of just coverting the game into a full-blown RTS, I was thinking about a phase system. First, you'd have your movement/management phases for all of the faiths. You'd do the usual crap you do on the LOM overmap, except if you engaged an enemy or encounter, the unit would simply show up as "engaged in combat". You wouldn't actually fight until... you guessed it, the battle phase. During this phase, all engaged battles would appear, one after the other, until they were all resolved. This gives all players the action at the same time, and reduces the amount of down-time. Well, that's my rough idea anyway... I haven't looked at all the possible consequences of such a system.
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Post by Tjaden on Jun 28, 2006 20:44:35 GMT -6
I suppose this is for Boaster:
First it's phenomenal that you keep this up. This is a great game after all.
I like the phase change idea from Atma. That would really speed up play as sometimes the battles can get excruciatingly long to wait for (waiting for an air fairy to kill some tank infantry from an impassable position, etc...).
Into details: The problem with the phase change idea is that the last race to go in the turn cycle would have all of his armies engaged by other faiths. Hence he might never be able to move any of his armies. You could balance this out by making the turn cycle constantly reverse order. Then if you go last, then you go first next, and visa-versa. That means the guys on the end of the turn cycle will actually go twice in a row. This seems fair to me.
Side Note: I am trying to play the Earth quest in the original LOMSE game(not in a mod). I was wondering if you had done it and knew how to beat it, or if you knew where I could find that information. I've beaten all the other quests, but on this one I'm ridiculously stuck at the part where you take on the three grendals in the swamp(this is the very beginning of the quest).
-Tjaden
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Post by Boaster on Jun 28, 2006 21:55:27 GMT -6
Side Note: I am trying to play the Earth quest in the original LOMSE game(not in a mod). I was wondering if you had done it and knew how to beat it, or if you knew where I could find that information. I've beaten all the other quests, but on this one I'm ridiculously stuck at the part where you take on the three grendals in the swamp(this is the very beginning of the quest). -Tjaden Stealth and Unstealth. Sometimes for the Grendel, you'll want to move far away then unstealth, aim, then time yourself about how long it takes from launching until your next attack. Once you figure out how long that is, you'll be able to aim attack, and just easy click off and on the stealth button to do a few aimed attacks in a row with less advancement from the enemies. With the weapon that grants extra attack versus the Grendel, just leave about 1 tile space in between Beow and the Grendel. The Grendel will approach and Beow will melee. Rinse and repeat, until all enemies have fertilized the ground. About the "Phases" idea. That would pretty much leave out the option to do multiple battles in one turn. You Phases idea would only allow 1 battle per turn, if I read correctly. However, a turn-based style similar to Lords of the Realm, where the turn ends when all players have clicked "End Turn" button. I think it should be a turn based game, but allow all players to move around at once. So on any given turn, all players can move, persue battle, etc. Then once again, I think the LOM turn-based system is fine as is.
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Post by merddyn on Jul 3, 2006 4:14:25 GMT -6
Two things I'd like to see. ^_^' I didn't read this all because of how long it is and such, but, one, multiple parties being able to be in one combat at once. Mainly, I'd like to be able to have my allies take part in the battle at the same time as me. Try Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic for an example of that. The other, is make the combat maps a bit more interesting. I'd like to see forests with trees you can use as cover and ambush an enemy from, dungeons where you can only have a few units walking abreast and some not move at all if they're too big or have wings can't fly, and the like.
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Post by Boaster on Jul 3, 2006 9:33:21 GMT -6
Two things I'd like to see. ^_^' I didn't read this all because of how long it is and such, but, one, multiple parties being able to be in one combat at once. Mainly, I'd like to be able to have my allies take part in the battle at the same time as me. Try Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic for an example of that. The other, is make the combat maps a bit more interesting. I'd like to see forests with trees you can use as cover and ambush an enemy from, dungeons where you can only have a few units walking abreast and some not move at all if they're too big or have wings can't fly, and the like. This is a great idea. Someone had mentioned this to me a long time ago, but was never posted here (at least I think). That is a good idea. About the multiple parties in one fight.
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Post by Ludamadx on Feb 25, 2007 14:52:08 GMT -6
Some of your ideas seem 'inspired' by Dungeons and Dragons . I think that the combat's should have a fog of war so that people can hide, opening up spells that cause all units to flash an outline for a specific time, etc. Thieves could have the ability to listen for units like they do for thieves, the thief stealth ability would work tenfold times better in the fog of war, avoiding spells that reveal them if their level > the caster's level. As for class/race here are my ideas: Every faith has a subclass of warrior mage and theif to themselves. For example Earth has: Warrior > Defender Mage > Terramancer Theif > Ranger (currently for order, but rangers are one with nature so they make more sense for Earth) And they have such races as: Dwarves Gnomes Elves You can make a combination of: Dwarf + Defender + Mounted or for example Gnome + Terramancer + Unmounted
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Post by bluebottle on Mar 19, 2007 4:53:02 GMT -6
I always though that when you beat up another faith they should be, well... more beaten. The little box that pops up says it's supposed to be a dark time for their faith, but they're merrily fighting alongside people they hated the day before. Usually they have better buildings too. Doesn't seem right to me, especially if they are opposite faiths. Of course you still want access to their spells and units though. Not quite sure how that would work. Maybe then the faith you pick at the start can have a greater impact on the game than on just your lord. At the moment, I try and take over the faiths with my favourite units and it makes little difference which one I pick at the start (apart from giving you a long walk sometimes).
I was thinking it would be cool if your lands were actually your lands and your land covered the regions you controlled similar to Disciples (but stopping growing at a certain radius). Then your own troops could get bonuses for fighting on their own lands, on all of the land they own. There are probably a few interesting bonuses that could be applied then, that I can't think of now. Then your faith really spread over the land of Urak not just your flag colour.
Also I think it would be a good addition to give thieves the ability to thieve. Such as steal resources or spells or artifacts from other faiths.
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Post by deadhand13 on Mar 28, 2007 17:17:09 GMT -6
Actually thieves can steal resources as is. I'm not sure if they can steal artifacts (don't do it very much). Spells mind you would be kind of hard to steal considering they're in the mages heads eh, so it would pretty much take another mage to have a snowballs chance in hell of stealing them. And I'm thinking some kind of mage-thief fusion class might be a bit to far over the line eh.
Anyways my own change. I'd like to see a larger amount of ways to spend your resources. I always find by about turn 60 ish and onwards that you tend to do well enough with what I have that more units isn't really necessary. Same with followers once you have the max 32 in each resource I lack to find a purpose in having them (specially when they start numbering in the 3 digits).
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Post by jopaed on Aug 10, 2007 19:19:49 GMT -6
I Would really appreciate if the Marauding Parties would disapear, in my Oppinion they have no other use than cause a lot of stress and sometimes making me sick of the gane... Then, i would love to have really alliances and free for all play, i have never seen two Computers battle each other. And third, I think what is really missing in the current Version is a good Campain and maps, with other changes than the Starting Positions and diferent ways to win...
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