QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Dec 2, 2008 13:11:50 GMT -6
I haven't really done some major testing with this but this is what it looks like to me.
For the FASTEST thieves (with the best possible equipment; they're legendary artifact/weapon and Luckstone)
Murderer
Punisher
Burglar Lord
Elite Huntress
For the SHORTEST RANGE of thieves
Murderer <--- Shortest
Elite Huntress <--- Short
Amazon Matron <--- Short
For the LONGEST RANGE of thieves
Matriarchal Archer
Burglar Lord
Punisher
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Then I guess the balanced thieves are the ones we didn't mention which are the Grand Ranger and the Faerie Lord but I'm guessing they are the best at STEALTH.
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Post by Boaster on Dec 2, 2008 16:28:23 GMT -6
Check around the Lords of Magic forum, or even the Graveyard for Thief comparisons.
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QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Dec 4, 2008 12:00:17 GMT -6
I did and I see you favorite the Murderer the best!
The thing that puzzle me is when people were making comparison to the Punisher as if he is more on the Fighter side Fighter/Thief. Well, he is but when you get his artifact and Luckstone, he becomes the 2nd best thief overall with incredible range, rate of fire, and there's like this burning sound that hits EVERY TIME!
The 1st best thief overall has got to be the BURGLAR. I would not have expected this guy to have be the best thief but he is! He's got longer range and I think the same rate of fire as the Punisher. No terrain penalties which is a plus. I think the only thing holding him back would be that he is just too slow to move around.
The 3rd thief would have to be the Matriarchal Archer. She is quite stable from lvl 1 (or whatever lvl) all the way through 15. She has the most stable damage to range ratio and no one can beat her at range, of course ;D She is also the fastest at moving in battle. She loses to the Faerie Lord in movement.
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Areille
Member LVL 6
"For Llandwyllen"
Posts: 80 
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Post by Areille on Feb 3, 2009 20:14:37 GMT -6
I did and I see you favorite the Murderer the best! The thing that puzzle me is when people were making comparison to the Punisher as if he is more on the Fighter side Fighter/Thief. Well, he is but when you get his artifact and Luckstone, he becomes the 2nd best thief overall with incredible range, rate of fire, and there's like this burning sound that hits EVERY TIME! The 1st best thief overall has got to be the BURGLAR. I would not have expected this guy to have be the best thief but he is! He's got longer range and I think the same rate of fire as the Punisher. No terrain penalties which is a plus. I think the only thing holding him back would be that he is just too slow to move around. The 3rd thief would have to be the Matriarchal Archer. She is quite stable from lvl 1 (or whatever lvl) all the way through 15. She has the most stable damage to range ratio and no one can beat her at range, of course ;D She is also the fastest at moving in battle. She loses to the Faerie Lord in movement. The Matriarchal Archer is one of my favourite but her arrows are just so slow you realy ahve to make sure your facing the right angle otherwise your atrget will just move out the way, evenmore so at long ranges. Burglar as best theif?! :0 That can't be right [Laugh out Loud], I heard it has the least stealth ability and its realy slow, all theif lords are pretty awsome with the legendary artifacts on, especialy the elite huntress with the chakram. Overall though I have to relucantly agree with mantera that as much as I hate death they do have the best theives, you cant beat the speed of those daggers and their damage, I've had 1v1 theif fights with murders vs my life theives and even if I'm a higher level its been a close fight. Those daggers go right through elven armor! I lost a life theif to a murderer even when I was trying to flee and their the only theives that I think twice before attacking. |
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Post by Boaster on Feb 3, 2009 20:55:29 GMT -6
Murderer, or Assassin? Cuz Murderer will of course be a killer of all. Assassins also, but not to the effect of the Murderer.
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Areille
Member LVL 6
"For Llandwyllen"
Posts: 80
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Post by Areille on Feb 3, 2009 21:07:35 GMT -6
Oh I meant both, the lord and the champion.
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Post by Boaster on Feb 3, 2009 21:14:38 GMT -6
Oh I meant both, the lord and the champion. While Death Thieves are deadly in the art of knife throwing, they're not so bad ass when you're in their face. Their Ranged Attack value is almost double their Melee Attack value. |
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Areille
Member LVL 6
"For Llandwyllen"
Posts: 80
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Post by Areille on Feb 3, 2009 21:19:09 GMT -6
Oh I meant both, the lord and the champion. While Death Thieves are deadly in the art of knife throwing, they're not so bad ass when you're in their face. Their Ranged Attack value is almost double their Melee Attack value. Yep, I wasnt suggesting they were overpowered or anything, I mean from a theif vs theif point of view. When I play life and send theives out to scout/steal it's the death theives that I fear the most. |
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QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Apr 19, 2011 20:18:36 GMT -6
I was looking at Thieves again and the Burglar Lord is still at #1.
Legendary - Earthshaker Bow has a 100% chance to cripple defenders!? 1/4 vs Uniques!? No other artifact has the ability to do this!
Next in line would have to be Murderers... Death is just too powerful to not be at the top of the tiers of any class.
As for the other thieves (even Earth and Death) it really depends if you want to solo or be with a mage (preferably) or full party. I'd say support spells like Swiftness and Quicksilver help because they remove terrain penalties which is the most important for a thief and it doubles their attack rate (basically).
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Post by Boaster on Apr 19, 2011 20:57:37 GMT -6
Air and Earth's Legendary Bow used to cast Headwind and Slow respectively. The fact that it now only Cripples a single unit is in fact a nerf. The chance to Cripple is reduced to 25% vs Uniques. 1 100 gamerand
100
defender defend_unit isunique?{4 div}if
attacker_hit_points attacker_max_hp 2 idiv le{4 div}if ; OFFENSIVE CASE, WEAK ATTACKER.
defender_hit_points defender_max_hp 2 idiv le{4 div}if ; OFFENSIVE CASE, WEAK DEFENDER.
attacker_level defender_level lt{4 div}if
attacker_luck add
cvi
le 100% chance gets reduced for several reasons. - If the defender is unique, divide by 4. - If the the attacker has 50% health or less, divide by 4. - If the the defender has 50% health or less, divide by 4. - If the the attacker level is less than the defender level, divide by 4. - Add Luck. In a perfect storm... a 1% chance vs Non-Uniques, 0% chance vs Unique targets. |
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QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Apr 20, 2011 13:45:37 GMT -6
 I can actually understand that and I'm terrible at math. I'll need to play the Thief Lords more then...
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Post by lAmebAdger on Oct 18, 2011 13:17:51 GMT -6
hi! This may be irrelevant to thief ranking, but I have some thoughts: If you want to defeat a death thief one on one with any of the other thieves on even fighting terms, here is what you do  : 1. Find him... obviously you're both starting the fight in sneak mode and trying to get the jump on the other guy. If you can't find him after 10 minutes, you should just leave the battle field... you won't win an auto-calc vs a death thief on similar levels. … or you could let him get the jump on you, in which case go to step 2. 2. dodge his daggers and shoot when he's not shooting: Side-step his first dagger once he's almost completed the throwing animation. Then attack and stand still. Then side-step his second dagger etc. If you somehow messed up and side-stepped while he's still in the beginnings of the throwing animation, he will correct his throw to get a dagger into your side-stepping path. Once you realize this is happening you should immediately zig-zag to get off the side-stepping path and not get hit... or it may be too late and you'll have to take a hit. 3. In the event that you see him and he doesn't see you, you can either try a capture on him if you're feeling lucky (works enough times to consider it) or get into a melee duel with him if you know you'll win. 4. In the event that his defense stat is too high for you to harm him without an aimed shot, you should just leave the battle... you seriously won't want to try doing step 2. with aimed shots unless you're the master of timing or something |
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Post by Boaster on Oct 18, 2011 13:38:17 GMT -6
In the [GS5] mod, Death Thieves are deadly at close range. They're pretty quick at the draw, swift of foot, and have that heavy-heavy hitting knife!
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Post by lAmebAdger on Oct 18, 2011 13:43:03 GMT -6
oh, sorry, haven't played it. Nevermind all of my post then  I should give it a shot, but I'm usually scared of changes and avoid mods, plus there are a few save files I want to keep playing... When I finish up all my save games I might download the one that doesn't add spells/artifacts/etc. |
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Post by Boaster on Oct 18, 2011 13:50:53 GMT -6
oh, sorry, haven't played it. Nevermind all of my post then I should give it a shot, but I'm usually scared of changes and avoid mods, plus there are a few save files I want to keep playing... When I finish up all my save games I might download the one that doesn't add spells/artifacts/etc. The GSZ has been disabled as a public download. But I was just commenting on how bad-ass Death Thieves are in the mod. What you say is still true of any fight with a Death Thief. |
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