eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113 
|
Post by eyesodilated on Jul 30, 2014 6:09:25 GMT -6
And by necropian abyss I mean LOMSE and by great masters I mean like Boaster, orzie and all you guys that sustain the life of this game. I humbly come asking a few questions... But first a little about myself... I grew up with this game, I remember saving my lunch money two weeks to buy this game at Toys R' Us... I was so excited to bring it home... Over a decade later I still find myself playing this game from time to time... Well you all know how great this game is, that being said I am also an amateur modder... I modded pokemon games heavily and now xbox games like soul calibur 5 so I understand basic computer programming/scripting however most of these games although they give me experience modding alot of programs and tutorials exist that allow me to really just number crunch, plug and play, easily(or somewhat easily) create unique content for the games. for example with pokemon games they are programs that allow me to insert
'scripts' into memory of the game and then automatically debugged the offsets... of course i am not asking for one of these programs for lomse but what I would love to know is exactly what I need to mod this game... I have read almost all the post I can and still continue to so this is what I do know...
Alot of the game data that is most interesting is in the .MPQ files... So from what I also read when I make a donation is it still possible to receive the GSM file (game script manual) that has valuble info?
I have MPQ viewers/extractors injectors but I have not been able to download the LOMSE List file for the MPQ program the link on ManterA seems off or maybe I dont know how to use linkbucks...
Also I remeber reading someone said they had a file about modding legends of Urak that seems very interesting too as I love modding the text script of a game for a more complete experience, so anyone know anything about that?
I know these next questions may be extreme but please bear with me:
I used to mod sims 2 and 3 models and textures, is there a similar way to mod 3d sprites and animations?
So my other question does anyone play multiplayer online anymore? I only got to play once online... I was able to find Boaster on a program that supports LOMSE but i dont know how to start a game... Is there a forum where people get together weekly or daily to play LOMSE??? please I hope so...
I was thinking of getting another copy of LOMSE to install on another computer and try LAN with someone I know... I am sure some of you guys are down for a LOMSE multiplayer match I hear talk of mods being multiplayer safe etc so I assume someone somwhere is playing still... and do you need 8 people to play or can AI still make up the slack?? I understand that more people are probably interested in playing the GS MOD so I am down for that too!
Please if you guys will allow one more person to stand on the shoulders of all you guys hard work ? I would love to become a junior apprentice in modding this legendary game...
I keep reading this forum but for some reason I cannot see the dates posts are made so its hard for me to follow chronologically but I know a question about mod values or something was asked about a week ago so I have hope. I dont mean to offend all your hard work by essentially asking for a little more that just help: i just desperately want to know all there is to know and then some about modding this game.?
Any help and or answers are deeply appreciated to my dream of modding and playing this game online...
Where to start please help! I usually hex edit alot but LOMSE has me a bit perplexed and I forgot what I knew as a kid... I easily gave my life mage a cloak of the vampire artifact and it was funny to see the double flag of a life lord on a vampire [Laugh out Loud]! I also remember switching my lords portraits for a better one (from in-game) but now i cant remember anything! I know it was a lot of trial and error but from what I see you guys can completely edit brand new lord portraits into the game and what looks like much much more, that is so cool! Thats why I need the LOMSE list file ? but anyway what I am saying is do you change game scripts in the hex editor or what? So many questions ! !!!! Please open my eyes and help me!!! THANKYOU SO MUCH!!!
|
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Jul 30, 2014 20:34:49 GMT -6
And by necropian abyss I mean LOMSE and by great masters I mean like Boaster, orzie and all you guys that sustain the of this life game. I humbly come asking a few questions... But first a little about myself... I grew up with this game, I remember saving my lunch money two weeks to buy this game at Toys R' Us... I was so excited to bring it home... Over a decade later I still find myself playing this game from time to time... Well you all know how great this game is, that being said I am also an amateur modder... I modded pokemon games heavily and now xbox games like soul calibur 5 so I understand basic computer programming/scripting however most of these games although they give me experience modding alot of programs and tutorials exist that allow me to really just number crunch, plug and play, easily(or somewhat easily) create unique content for the games. for example with pokemon games they are programs that allow me to insert 'scripts' into memory of the game and then automatically debugged the offsets... of course i am not asking for one of these programs for lomse but what I would love to know is exactly what I need to mod this game... I have read almost all the post I can and still continue to so this is what I do know... Alot of the game data that is most interesting is in the .MPQ files... So from what I also read when I make a donation is it still possible to receive the GSM file (game script manual) that has valuble info? I have MPQ viewers/extractors injectors but I have not been able to download the LOMSE List file for the MPQ program the link on ManterA seems off or maybe I dont know how to use linkbucks... Also I remeber reading someone said they had a file about modding legends of Urak that seems very interesting too as I love modding the text script of a game for a more complete experience, so anyone know anything about that? I know these next questions may be extreme but please bear with me: I used to mod sims 2 and 3 models and textures, is there a similar way to mod 3d sprites and animations? So my other question does anyone play multiplayer online anymore? I only got to play once online... I was able to find Boaster on a program that supports LOMSE but i dont know how to start a game... Is there a forum where people get together weekly or daily to play LOMSE??? please I hope so... I was thinking of getting another copy of LOMSE to install on another computer and try LAN with someone I know... I am sure some of you guys are down for a LOMSE multiplayer match I hear talk of mods being multiplayer safe etc so I assume someone somwhere is playing still... and do you need 8 people to play or can AI still make up the slack?? I understand that more people are probably interested in playing the GS MOD so I am down for that too! Please if you guys will allow one more person to stand on the shoulders of all you guys hard work ? I would love to become a junior apprentice in modding this legendary game... I keep reading this forum but for some reason I cannot see the dates posts are made so its hard for me to follow chronologically but I know a question about mod values or something was asked about a week ago so I have hope. I dont mean to offend all your hard work by essentially asking for a little more that just help: i just desperately want to know all there is to know and then some about modding this game.? Any help and or answers are deeply appreciated to my dream of modding and playing this game online... Where to start please help! I usually hex edit alot but LOMSE has me a bit perplexed and I forgot what I knew as a kid... I easily gave my life mage a cloak of the vampire artifact and it was funny to see the double flag of a life lord on a vampire [Laugh out Loud]! I also remember switching my lords portraits for a better one (from in-game) but now i cant remember anything! I know it was a lot of trial and error but from what I see you guys can completely edit brand new lord portraits into the game and what looks like much much more, that is so cool! Thats why I need the LOMSE list file ? but anyway what I am saying is do you change game scripts in the hex editor or what? So many questions ! !!!! Please open my eyes and help me!!! THANKYOU SO MUCH!!! So from what I also read when I make a donation is it still possible to receive the GSM file (game script manual) that has valuble info? Yep, still possible. WinMPQ, the runpacks, the list files. All these you need. The list file for LOMSE can easily be found through a google search. Most likley shadowflare's site, or some other site with MPQ editing tools. Also I remeber reading someone said they had a file about modding legends of Urak that seems very interesting too as I love modding the text script of a game for a more complete experience, so anyone know anything about that? Orzie is your guy for this. He created a manual for quest editing. It may require some of the basic principals and guidelines the GSM provides. So my other question does anyone play multiplayer online anymore? I only got to play once online... I was able to find Boaster on a program that supports LOMSE but i dont know how to start a game... Is there a forum where people get together weekly or daily to play LOMSE??? please I hope so... I was thinking of getting another copy of LOMSE to install on another computer and try LAN with someone I know... I am sure some of you guys are down for a LOMSE multiplayer match I hear talk of mods being multiplayer safe etc so I assume someone somwhere is playing still... and do you need 8 people to play or can AI still make up the slack?? I understand that more people are probably interested in playing the GS MOD so I am down for that too! GameRanger and Kali support LOMSE for multiplayer. GameRanger has been quite a bit broken since I last played on it. I haven't played multiplayer since before I started working full time. 8 player games in multiplayer are possible, but would have to be 4 human and 4 AI. Any game with more than 2 human players takes forever (and a day) and is very unstable. The game simply won't support 8 players as far as I've been able to tell. i just desperately want to know all there is to know and then some about modding this game.? Any help and or answers are deeply appreciated to my dream of modding and playing this game online... That's basically where I was nearly 10 years ago today. With the GSM, you'll learn a lot more in 1 week than I learned in 3 years. I'm almost certain. All of the GS files are plain text. I'll try to help where I can, but my responses may either be limited or may appear vague to an apprentice. I still come here and check for new people and posts. I'll help where I can, but that GSM (hint hint, wink wink, nudge, nudge) would be a great place to start. Orzie is likely and willing to help you as well. |
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Jul 31, 2014 23:20:14 GMT -6
Hello thankyou so much for your time and response! I made a donation to the paypal on your Mantera site... the paypal account is hectrev name Rosa however I would really prefer if you could use the email: gothicnlost@aol.com to send the GSM files to if you could please, the paypal is my brother's account so it would be difficult to retrieve from his paypal email so if you could use the gothicnlost@aol.com i think i used to register at this site... anyway thanks alot I look forward to the email with the GSM... you said it was a .pdf on another post... is it already attached or will the email contain a link? anyway thanks so much Ill try and contact orzie about that legends of urak and maybe some help... By the way here is an image i attached of a portrait mod for water lomse portraitmod.bmp (576.04 KB)thief lord I did yesterday, its basically a image of katy perry so its not original artwork or necessarily in the realm of LOMSE but i thought I would experiment around, so this is what I got... however later on I found out the portrait for some of deaths units had ugly lines on them that ruined them and I recognize this from my pokemon hacking days as when I somehow used too much memory or changed the offsets ?. so how do you guys get around this... do you replace .gs .lbm files with ones of the exact size? maybe the death portraits are result of a new .wav file for Order theme i inserted later anyway Im sure the GSM will definitely help out so much, really a dream come true... I eagerly await let me know if you had a problem receiving the donation ( i plan to make more donation soon but I am a little tight on money right now) please take care! -Eyes |
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Aug 1, 2014 8:45:38 GMT -6
To get around the messed up portraits, I basically took an in-game screen shot of the game and re-made it.
The GSM was sent.
It will definitely help to learn the basic principals of editing LOMSE.
Your amazon portrait looks nice. Were you able to add it to the game to use?
|
|
orzie
Official 
Posts: 365
|
Post by orzie on Aug 1, 2014 13:06:01 GMT -6
Also I remeber reading someone said they had a file about modding legends of Urak that seems very interesting too as I love modding the text script of a game for a more complete experience, so anyone know anything about that? It was my work. Yet, I didn't finish it and even did not bring it to a somewhat beta stage, because there was a huge delay in my questmaking work (life made its correctives), but I still hope plan to return to my Life Quest for GS5 Mod and bring to life at least its northern part. Taking a 4x Urak-sized map was not a good decision, hehe. The Questmaking manual you speak about was planned to be written just after I release the Life Quest. It's a bit outdated because Mantera changed the file names in GS.MPQ, but it's still available to read and understand. Please if you guys will allow one more person to stand on the shoulders of all you guys hard work ? I would love to become a junior apprentice in modding this legendary game... Always welcome. Feel free to post here - we don't meet many visitors nowadays. I keep reading this forum but for some reason I cannot see the dates posts are made so its hard for me to follow chronologically As far as I have been able to investigate, it's all about your browser. I use Google Chrome and all post dates are messed up for me too. God damn the ProBoards engine upgrade. I liked the old forum. I know these next questions may be extreme but please bear with me: I used to mod sims 2 and 3 models and textures, is there a similar way to mod 3d sprites and animations? Unfortunately, the program for packing IMP sprites is not working properly. It is only able to unpack the frames. I contacted the creator of it personally (he was Russian too, what a surprise) and he made me understand very clearly that the program is not going to be completed. Yet, I do have a source code for it - perhaps someone will be able to finish it for a fee. No optimism though. I may try to save some money for it. So that - you are able to do many things to the game, but adding new IMP sprites (namely - new creatures) is currently barely possible. Sad but true. |
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Aug 2, 2014 8:16:54 GMT -6
[By the way], I forgot to ask, "Has Urak been cleansed?"
|
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Aug 2, 2014 23:20:49 GMT -6
Hello all! THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR THE GSM! It looks highly helpful and you can tell how much work you put into that, I can barely imagine how difficult it must have been to carve out that foothold! Also just got the GS MOD off a fixed link on the MANTERA site and it looks beautiful! So much little things make me go ohh and ahh! I like how when you pick the lord they do a pose after they walk to the center! The menus look gorgeous and very informative, great job! I know the image I uploaded was poor quality however if you look closely you can tell that I indeed managed to use the new image in the game for my amazon thief. Here is another screen shot: newport.bmp (900.05 KB) I think the issue with messed up portraits was resolved by carefully taking note not to exceed the original file's size... I add the lbm file using WinMPQ into the pic.mpq file... I dont know if the method I described is the best way but it certainly works well for me now as I have made a few new portraits, but any other methods you guys have or is that the best way? I am patiently awaiting your new life quest orzie! The premise sounds so cool... You say that the questmaking manual is a bit outdated but available to read and understand? I would love to get my hands on that, how would I go about doing that? I searched google but couldnt find the questmaking manual... About the dates on the proboards, if I hover over the jibberish with my cursor the dates pop up!  The program for imp files is not working correctly. that is a shame, but source code could help... Is the program LOMUT the one not working? I unpacked the imp.mpq into thousands of pcx files! I edited the iface/waicons/12-ldt-00-000.pcx to a new one when I used LOMUT to create a .mpq library with the new image I edited I got an output.mpq that I renamed imp.mpq... When I loaded the game I got no overland sprites at all! even worse I cannot manage to use LOMUT to make a new mpq! when I do it now and view the imp.mpq in WinMPQ, the .imp files are all .pcx, I could have swore the first time I used LOMUT to make a mpq, that WinMPQ read my new new mpq as having only .imp and .h files... The other program I havent got to work at all is the snv's sau, maybe thats the one that youre talking about? I have not tried to apply the GSM knowledge I have now thanks to boaster, but will study it and start tinkering around soon! I have just been obsessed with these darn .imp files the last few days, theyre driving me crazy! There has go to be a way around it! I saw boaster had made a color change to water warrior lord, I was unable to download the file but I think its incorporated into the gs mod if I am not mistaken... Anyway I saw that the download includes an .imp file and .h file... did you somehow manage to edit an .imp file? and did you edit a new .h file to make the new .imp work? How did you do that? Anyway I am currently running lomse.exe in IDA pro trying to disassemble the program into ASM code, found some interesting stuff, but most of this is right outside my realm of understanding... i see alot of strings in the code like : addquest, setquestresetproc ,showskull, removedeadunits, geteventleaderwhodied, geteventwinner, find_empty_x_y just to show a few random string commands of the almost 5000! I know with pokemon hacking I could call an ASM offset within a gamescript to allow for things the ROM couldnt normally do... for example in the LOMSE.exe the command string DEFEND_UNIT is at the offset 00558640, so whenever you are in game battle and defend a unit this location is accessed... maybe a artifact GS mod could also call these strings??? Also the game has many functions, over 6000! Are functions like DirectDrawCreate (starting at 00533840) and GetCurrentProcessID(staring at 00542040) maybe usable in Game script modding? Maybe I am outstepping my boundaries? Does memory in game matter or can you add new lbm's to mpq files willy nilly? And when editing Game scripts same question, can I edit values in file or does that mess up the memory call offfsets? For instance in the quest.gs can I freely edit the text, etc. or do I need to make a brand new one? Do you guys use hex editor or notepad to edit GS??? Thanks a billion! Well I ll keep learning and never give up on this... Thankyou for all your help guys! Really thankyou so much... I am trying to setup a game on kali with my sister, I hope it works! [By the way] what does has Urak been cleansed mean? Yeah if I save money I will buy LOMSE rights from Vivendi! Take care Ill update if I find anything I need help with or anything useful... -Eyes |
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Aug 3, 2014 6:55:39 GMT -6
For additional help, Ascension64 has a compiled list of all game variables and proc mechanisms into a PDF document.
I fixed a bunch of downloads on my site Friday.
The updated waicons.imp should still be available off the forum somewhere.
|
|
orzie
Official
Posts: 365
|
Post by orzie on Aug 3, 2014 8:59:51 GMT -6
Whoa, what a load of text. I'm afraid I'll be able to answer only at 6th - I'm currently outta town.
Actually the functions you spoke about are already mentioned by Ascension64. Dunno if he tried to decompile the executable file though.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Aug 15, 2014 18:50:00 GMT -6
So, how helpful has that GSM been to you, eyesodilated?
|
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Aug 31, 2014 0:16:57 GMT -6
So, how helpful has that GSM been to you, eyesodilated? The GSM has been so very helpful, I would be nowhere without it... The language of the GS is nearly indecipherable without it... The GSM is like the Rosetta Stone of LOMSE and I highly recommend it to any and everyone... I still have only scratched the surface with it though, and like any language will take time to get adjusted to... It has helped me mod beyond my wildest dreams! Sorry I have not posted for a while as I have been really busy moving out of my house... I did find my old LOMSE poster with all the units on the back so I take it as an omen. I have been trying to mod in the between time and had some small breakthroughs for myself... 1: I have switched out some sprites, nothing too special just interchanged mounts for some units... had some pretty funny and cool results. With the GSM I could finally make sense out of those files. My Water Calvary unit is now Lizard people on lizard steeds and my thief now rides a Kraken, but the latter is really just for laughs. 2: Somehow I replaced the Valkryie sprite with a new custom one I made... I say somehow because I am not 100% how I extracted the watf1a.imp but I used LOMUT... I must have extracted all IMP files half a dozen times and it seems like certain IMP files just never extracted... However one day I found watf1a.imp just randomly there in one of my folders... I could be wrong maybe it was always there and the sheer amount of files extracted served only to hide it.. but also I extracted wacr3.imp once and only once and I am pretty sure about that... anyway wierd.? As I was saying I have been fumbling around with watf1a.imp for a while until today, ironically the last day in my house before I have to get out, I got my 'new' sprite to 'work' ? I use those terms loosely because it is not exactly a new sprite since I lost one to obtain it and also I am not done animating the sprite at all maybe 10 % of the total frames with the rest being duplicates... I have been able to steadily add more frames 'successfully' but have a lot of work to do to perfect it... The new unit I made is a Siren, or commonly known today as a Mermaid.. The Greek Siren looked like a Mermaid but could fly and would lure sailors to there demise with their songs of death... So now I feel on the precipice of something good, I don't want to get ahead of myself and must remain disciplined to create a fully functional LOMSE sprite... But I think it is possible I can complete this and will dedicate my time to perfecting this sprite... Thankyou so much you have helped me get started modding this wonderful game. I would be honored if you get some free time to perhaps check out my new Mermaid sprite in action... I have a few videos on YouTube, the older one is a run through of my present work on modding LOMSE... The second video is a full battle with the 'new' Mermaid sprite with some help from lesser mount mods... youtu.be/xevOudmDF_g?list=UUJUz9Zm83zPUZeV7bNqhO4gyoutu.be/NU0kbQGvrF4?list=UUJUz9Zm83zPUZeV7bNqhO4gMy YouTube channel is: Angelica J. Trevino in case the links don't work So yes, any advice on maybe improving my Mermaid sprite? What do you think about it? Does it break any new ground? For me it does, but maybe to you or someone else its like "been there done that"? I ask because you are the leading authority on LOMSE and LOMSE modding... and I want to perfect making new sprites but there is a long road ahead as I see... any input and feedback is greatly appreciated as you know modding LOMSE is a passion project for us full of peril and difficulties.. perhaps we can Parley to strengthen ties in this uncertain times [Laugh out Loud] Also on another note I was able to successfully play on both Kali and GameRanger against my sister using my version of your GSMOD!!! IT was so fun, but like you time is fleeting for me as well and haven't been able to complete a full game but very fun nonetheless just to play with a human! Also, I am not asking how to, as I would like to try and find out myself, but is it possible to have an artifact change your sprite... like how Cloak of Vampire changes you.. hmm think I answered my own question... As for Legends of Urak, this is at you Orzie, I cant figure out how to add a water quest... Is it possible or do you just 'write' over an existing Legend? how many GS files are related to the Legends of Urak? I keep finding more and more... Anyway I am going to try and add more frames to my Mermaid sprite to make it a real LOMSE unit with full movement and directional animations IF I can, I hope so... Please take care, hope to hear from you guys soon! EyeS |
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Aug 31, 2014 10:32:06 GMT -6
You have certainly taken a lot of time to work on things.
Staying on the positive side of things, you're definitely making changes that add diversity. Since now, it seems like your focus is on Water. Lizard Riders, Kraken Riders and especially the Mermaid are all great ideas. However, on the not so pleasant side, there are the "eye sores" to get around. But regardless, your work is an art and you're coming along tremendously. In time, I'm sure you'll develop the full understanding you need to make the changes you have made now, and make them seamless.
I saw the videos. Nicely done!
Unlike yourself, I haven't been too ambitious or too patient enough to seek to add totally new units (i.e. Mermaid). My limited art ability would have only allowed me to re-color things (such as the Red Dwarf, action icons, spell icons and artifact icons).
Glad the GSM was such a great help! Keep it up!
|
|
orzie
Official
Posts: 365
|
Post by orzie on Sept 1, 2014 1:35:36 GMT -6
Adding new creatures would be a high boost for modding, but the problem with the choosable area of the creature is not solved and is not likely to be solved in the nearest future. You will have to use Pause button and choose the creature from the party roster panel in combat. Other than that, it's cool to see one more LOM enthusiast on board. Adding the Water Quest is easy... for me. I may get back to the questmaking manual and add some useful pieces to it, before sending it to you. It just takes time. There is also a fly in the ointment. I myself stand for the high-quality modifications, and when the deal comes up to graphics, I would greatly appreciate the nicely done graphics as well. Currently I am busy a lot with my Heroes of Might and Magic III modification (based on HoMM2 and Might and Magic VI, all games by New World Computing), and getting things right is really hard, but that's what every mod must be IMO. So I would want to see some improved concepts from you in future. The current ones look too much rudimentary, but it is for sure a nice progress. I also specialize in pixel art, and I may probably help you with some portraits replicating the genuine game style (I suppose my techniques can be used there as well). But the amount of my free time is strictly limited.   |
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Sept 16, 2014 19:57:37 GMT -6
Hey guys! Thanks for all the support I will definitely work to perfect my sprites, they are very rudimentary at the moment [Laugh out Loud]...cool Anubis warrior orzie, that is pretty badass- I remember HOMM now [Oh my God!]! I always favored LOMSE but definetly play HOMM alot.? Adding new creatures would be a high boost for modding, but the problem with the choosable area of the creature is not solved and is not likely to be solved in the nearest future. You will have to use Pause button and choose the creature from the party roster panel in combat I am such a nerd I always pause combat to select my unit so I did not notice but you are right, that hotspot selection area is reading the terrain as part of the sprite! >:DThat truly sucks!  I have found a way to "fix" this choosable area bug so to speak, however I do caution that this is not a 100% fix-all, as Boaster said famously: "Nothing about LOMSE is easy"? I have not tested it thoroughly but enough to see that I am getting good results eliminating that choosable area 'hotspot' to the point I dare say it is normal... in other words the issue of having your sprite's choosable area turn out as 512X512 (basically the whole screen) can be nullified... The choose sprite cursor is a pointing hand... As you can see in my newest video when a new sprite is inserted the choose sprite cursor thinks the terrain around the new sprite in a 512X512 area around it- lame! The move here walking guy cursor wont appear until you are past this area: hence the "area for you character hotspot bug" for lack of a better name...I know this is old info for you but bare with me...  Please note that this video contains new sprites that are extremely rudimentary even more so than my mermaid, some have no animation at all and "slide" across the field of battle.? There are 3 sprites new I am working on... InuYasha, Sango and Shippo... InuYasha is the white hair guy in red with a sword and Sango is in black with a giant boomerang Both InuYasha and Sango suffer from the aforementioned "hotspot bug"? As you can clearly see in the video a 512X512 are around them is considered part of them by the game engine... You can see in the second battle that is almost impossible to play as the giant hotspot areas of both InuYasha and Sango overlap with there huge 512X512... However if you look at my Shippo sprite(the little fox demon with orange hair) I have managed to reduce area that is the 'choosable area hotspot' to something more reasonable... The area immediately around him no longer registers as part of him and just like a normal sprite from the game the 'chose sprite' cursor hand turns into a 'move here' walking guy cursor! I know it might not be a total solution as I can think of some ways it may bug out under certain circumstances but I simply made the .pcx file of the images of my sprite a factor of 512 rather than 512 itself and to my suprise it seems to work in getting rid of that pesky 'chossable area hotspot bug'!  I even use the select box grid from all 4 directions to really emphasize that the area around Shippo registers as terrain and not the transparent part of the sprite... I am never to quick to declare success in any endeavor and especially with LOMSE I have great trepidation in doing so... LOMSE is like Balkoth, you can never quite corner it without learning the hard way what tricks he has in his bag.? Well if you get a chance watch the video, sorry no commentary on this one, I try to show how my Shippo sprite no longer has the 'hotspot bug' my other older sprites and apparently every new sprite that has ever been modded into this game so far have... Here is the link to the video: youtu.be/DjIlKWgRPhALet me know what you guys think! Does this solve the bug with the choosable area or have I just gone crazy and maybe overlooking something! I am eager to know if this solution is really useful! Or if not what are the consequences I have unforeseen in changing the .pcx file size to eliminate the hotspot bug... I know with LOMSE once one obstacle is cleared another pops up to take its place! I have tried with 64X64 image size and 32X32 image size and both work... Only factors of 512 really seem to work, as any other number crashes LOMUT... maybe you can try it out yourselves if you get a chance... Please tell me 'hotspot chosable area bug' problem solved!!! |
|
orzie
Official
Posts: 365
|
Post by orzie on Sept 18, 2014 3:45:19 GMT -6
Hey, that looks pretty pretty interesting. I really don't see any problem with your video - you really managed to decrease the choosable area. I wonder why didn't we try just to decrease the frame size like you did. There could be some problems, but... who knows if the LOMUT author really did implement the sprite unpacking right? For now, I guess, we can consider this a solution. I even got some inspiration to return to LOMSE modding for a while. Perhaps I will be able to do some tests with some game rips, like Diablo II or other isometric ones. I'm very glad you visited us, a fresh idea and an experiment loving mind is for sure welcome. I can't say I love anime-style creatures, especially in LOMSE, but you really made me a little happier. This gives us a small hope of further modding LOMSE. I see you are a very ambitious and hard-working person - my respect! By the way, where is my Life Quest directory? Time to finish the 2-year work... |
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Sept 19, 2014 13:05:27 GMT -6
Hey real quick what I found last night (I havent slept yet! too excited) You can use 32X64 which might be better than a perfect square, I know every pixel counts, so I think that combination is just right for LOMSE, so the sprites are not too "fat" Second I found that you can compile frames that never get compiled due to the mirroring issue and LOMUT... for every XX-move-00-000 frame they are 3 more frame angles you need to compile in... we have seen XX-move-00-000 to XX-move-01-000 all the way to XX-move-04-000...however I think more frames are needed... XX-move-05-000 to XX-move-07-000 so for movement if you add 3 more frame angle libraries (XX-move-05-000,XX-move-05-001,XX-move-05-002... XX-move-07-003,XX-move-07-004) i think something like 15 extra pcx files straight into your new imp master frame folder and just compile back with LOMUT and the extra frames help make the mirror issue go away! I havent completely checked everything and this is all I got so I could be wrong, but i think I am close... 00 North 01 North-East 02 East 03 South-East 04 South 05 West 06 South-West 07 North-West West, South-West and North-West have been for me the missing sprite mirrors, so I know you can manually insert extra frame angle libraries because I have tried and it worked! No invisible frames and no Michael Jackson "moonwalking" sprites!!! so a XX-move-00-000 would represent a north facing sprite(back turned) while a XX-move-02-000 is East facing (to your right)? Looks like LOMSE authors made this purposefully jumbled in case someone got close to hacking it... the numeric order is not typical clockwise... Use the Key I left to figure out which way your sprite is facing... I think LOMUT even mixes up South-East and South...again not 100% sure yet but worked great for me... Well I hope that makes sense and I really hope that this helps to solve some issues... (not sure if everyone has sprite mirroring issues not even sure if LOMUT works the same for everybody!) I have a new video showing my new sprite(no Hotspot Bug) a water mage, with what appears to be fully functioning sprite mirroring... she turns and walks where i want her to go!!!  Please let me know if you catch any bugs in my video or with that solution!!! I hope I was clear enough, I have to go to work but I will definitely be experimenting later!! *EDIT* I was reading some old posts and it does seem like sprite mirroring is an issue, but it also seems like Boaster already has a way to 'bypass' it that looks similar to what I did by packing in extra frame libraries, so credit to him! I think then the method to fix the hotspot bug can actually help the problem of file size too which looks like a roadblock to proper sprite mirroring... I am looking at a originally extracted sprite at 1.89 MB file size where as my new sprite with huge amounts of 'new frames' (to combat mirroring problems) is a paltry 339 KB!!? that is KB ha! Still not even half the total memory of the original non-extracted sprite! New link for video, last one did not upload... Video Link: youtu.be/1AuFMXsbX94Hope to hear from you guys! Take Care... -EyeS |
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Sept 23, 2014 6:35:14 GMT -6
UPDATE: I have tested and compiled imps that have bigger or smaller frames than the rest and that works... so if most of your MOVE frames are 32X64 nothing seems to stop you from say making your ATTACK frame files 64X128 Also I have tested "stuffing" frames into animation libraries that normally have only one frame... for instance add xx-STAND-xx-001, xx-STAND-xx-002 and etc etc This can be great for adding effects like wind blowing hair, clothes or make a character appear never at rest like battle ready heavy breathing (kind of like how mortal kombat characters take an animated stance...) The frame stuffing also adds a minimal amount of data too! Take a look at my new video and see if you can spot something novel! youtu.be/ucJAPs8CADA(hint: STAND animation of water mage) I havent test this yet though but I am curious can we extend ATTACK animations by the right number of frames to make it more appealing to the eye's repetition weary tastes... For Example: A paladin is pounding away on some unit... Normally you will see the Paladin do the same strike over and over with his sword...  But what if with frame stuffing you could make 1 out of ten strikes show the horse rear up and he pulls out a lance and pokes some one? I think its possible and will test it out later today maybe not on the Paladin but something else... I feel like a whole new era of LOMSE is on the brink of the horizon and we must be careful with this... Do you smell a GSX Release? I really hope so... However... What are the main problems modding LOMSE standing in our way? |
|
|
|
Post by Boaster on Sept 23, 2014 10:19:21 GMT -6
Chiming in late, but... hi!
Yes, the way to compensate for lack of mirroring is to create additional sprites.
The dimensions of the image and the selectable hotspots of the unit are the key problem at this point. Even with reducing the dimensions of existing sprites to make a smaller selectable area, I think the main issue (for me) is that I don't want it working broken (if it makes sense). Call it an OCD, or something.
I don't know how viable the "frame stuffing" would be.
The only frame stuffing I see as being possible, is creating ranged attack animations for units that don't have them. This is where the "lance" could come in.
I always thought it was cool, when this game was first around, that ranger's had a melee and ranged attack animation. Shoot a crossbow, but still fight hand-to-hand. That was awesome to me then.
Also, an increase in frames for attacks, like the giants, means slower action or appearance.
|
|
orzie
Official
Posts: 365
|
Post by orzie on Sept 24, 2014 5:05:31 GMT -6
I guess, we can still try and test, because there is no other way to do it. How would you know that svn really did implement the sprite unpacking just as they were packed back in the old times? This is the only our chance anyway.
The biggest problem in LOMSE modding aside from sprites is the lack of free time, as usual.
|
|
eyesodilated
Member LVL 7
May it be a light for you in dark places, when all other lights go out
Posts: 113
|
Post by eyesodilated on Sept 24, 2014 12:28:36 GMT -6
Hey! I totally understand if you are not convinced at the veracity of my solution... You are the boss so if you are not convinced then it is my duty to provide proofs on my theory... They are a lot of ways to test it and they will take some time to perform but I am already having good results with an initial test... Here is my theory: LOMUT is a powerful utility that extracts sprites from the game and packs them back in... Maybe it is too powerful and blanket extracts all pcx images as 512X512 because I believe that this is the largest of image dimension in the game (title screen with dragon and other PANEL images maybe 512X512) and perhaps something to do with the 512 kb VGA graphic cards used at the time(I think not sure) the other original sprites automatically get extracted with these dimensions...although there non-extracted file size suggest they should be smaller... The main question of my theory is this: Is LOMUT arbitrarily adding extra transparent areas to sprites? I really think so... here is my 'proof' for this theory... video link to proof test: youtu.be/QDQ1RMAbnCsI take an original Valkyrie sprite extracted with LOMUT... it is 512X512 I crop said sprite to 40X88 (just found out that polynomials of 512 work too!) I use LOMUT to compile this single 40X88 image into a IMP file... I place this new IMP file in a 'units' folder... I use LOMUT to unpack my new sprite... LOMUT extracts my new sprite as a 512X512!!! So even if my new sprite was 40X88 when I compiled it into an IMP, LOMUT still unpacks as a 512X512 image... this 'extra' transparent area may just be that, extra... and what I hope an arbitrary convention as well... So my theory postulates that we may never know the true sprite sizes as LOMUT will extract any IMP file into 512X512 images... We could start calculating memory which I plan to further test my hypothesis... My belief is that every sprite in the game has its own unique dimensions and that LOMUT tries its best to extract them uniformly... Also I dont know if I was clear about this but I maintain the size of the sprite image, I just crop out the extra transparent area... So I am not making the sprite smaller only minimizing the transparent area thus meaning the original proportions of the important part of the sprite are intact ? If having a smaller dimension size (40X88) really matters LOMUT certainly does not care... It adds in the area I cropped out anyway when I compiled it and when I extract it... So we dont need to worry about making the transparent area 512X512 as LOMUT can and will do it for us... For however broken this hotpot fix may be I will try to provide more proof that it indeed functions as the original sprites do. As you can see in the video this is just one of my proofs, the question is how can this be refuted? If one makes a IMP file that has image dimensions that reduce transparent area of sprites while leaving the sprite itself in proportion and intact and LOMUT accepts this, compiles it into an IMP but upon LOMSE loading the sprite or LOMUT unpacking it- it behaves normal (LOMSE has no hotspot bug... LOMUT unpacks it as 512X512 regardless of initial image dimesions) then how can we tell the difference between a newly compiled sprite and an original one? If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck? Of course this is my initial test to my theory,, and I will do more until we can say something for certain. It just seems like we are simultaneously giving too much and too little credit to LOMUT... We expect that 512X512 is written in stone, but what if LOMUT was trying its best and different null areas were both read as transparent areas... Then again LOMUT places images of different dimensions in the center as opposed to a corner, so maybe it was designed powerful on purpose... I have a few other ideas of other test I can do, maybe a memory test requiring me to crop all the frames of the Valkyrie unit and recompiling etc.. If the sprites in the game are originally 512X512 I dont think that LOMUT can tell us... All it can tell us in this regard is that: Original sprites are extracted as 512X512 Any new sprites are extracted as 512X512 The memory usage in the MPQ viewer would suggest that original sprites were not compiled as 512X512 So maybe just maybe our new sprites need to be different than 512X512? What do yall think about this? EDIT: UPDATE! I was looking at the output dialog as LOMUT unpacked watf1a.imp... It actually tells us that sprite images are all different sizes!!! 512X512 must be the default size it extracts too... I am now 99% sure we need to crop out the extra transparent area, not only to eliminate the hotspot bug and to keep the file sizes from getting to large but to make it like the original sprites in the game!!! According to LOMUT each frame has a different dimension!! Look for yourselves it is all right there in the LOMUT output dialog... The 10th library frame of the Valkyrie 00 angle library and frame 00 extracts with the following information, among that info is that original sprite at this frame has a width of 68 and length of 78... if you crop out the most transparent area you can on the 10-xx-00-000 frame you get 68X78!!! ![]()  If you think that compiling images other than 512X512 is a broken way of using LOMUT please consider that LOMUT itself indicates frames come in all sizes... unless that is not what you meant- then what makes it broken? So what do yall think??? |
|
