Starting a GS6 Beta

[Boaster]

I'm going to start rolling out the GS6 Beta, since there have been revelations in how to create new unit sprites, and possibly create new unit sprites without bugs or problems in the not too distant future.

It will be the beta phase, and will therefore, require content updates not only to the PIC and IMP and soundfx MPQ files.

In summary, The GS6 Beta (GS6B) is going to start out where the GS5R3 left off with additional changes.

First slew of changes will be included (from my notes):

**USE THESE FOR NEW EXPERIENCE PER LEVELS**

200  400  600 1000 1600 2600  4200  6800 11000 17900 28900  46800  75700 122500 LOW
250  500  750 1250 2000 3250  5250  8500 13750 22500 36000  58500  94500 153000 MED
300  600  900 1500 2400 3900  6300 10200 16500 26700 43200  69900 113100 183000 CHAMP
350  700 1050 1750 2800 4550  7350 11900 19250 31150 50400  81550 131950 213500 HIGH
400  800 1200 2000 3200 5200  8400 13600 22000 35600 57600  93200 150800 244000 LEADER
450  900 1350 2250 3600 5850  9450 15300 24750 40050 64800 104850 169650 274500 SPECIAL CHAMP
500 1000 1500 2500 4000 6500 10500 17000 27500 44500 72000 116500 188500 305000 SPECIAL LEADER

--MILITARY AND CREATURE UNITS SKIP A SET BETWEEN LEVELS--


**SELECT MILITARY UNITS MAY REACH LEVEL 6**
AIR-EAGLES (M)
CHAOS-RAIDERS (H)
DEATH-HALBERDIERS (L)
EARTH-INFANTRY (L)
FIRE-HURLERS (H)
LIFE-ARCHERS (H)
ORDER-KNIGHTS* (and also HOLY KNIGHTS via SPECIAL BUILDING) (H)
WATER-LIZARDMEN (L)
*Knights can reach level 6, but can transform into Holy Knights (always level 6) at Level 5 or 6 from the Cathedral.

**SELECT CHAMPIONS MAY REACH LEVEL 12**
AIR-STORM SORCERER
CHAOS-BEAST RIDER
DEATH-ASSASSIN
EARTH-DWARVEN WARRIOR
FIRE-FLAME SORCERESS
LIFE-ELVEN THIEF
ORDER-PALADIN
WATER-PRIESTESS


New experience sets. Some native military units and champions will be able to reach higher heights.

If anyone has any feedback, share it here. Also, I'll get started with these things when I find myself with a little more time to spare (marriage, multiple jobs and house keep one busy).

[orzie]

Y'know, the biggest problem with LOMSE which still remains in GS5 is a) dumb AI uncapable of using resources ergonomically and b) lack of dungeons. The latter ruins the interest in late game completely. I would even want the medium-rated dungeon respawn after a specific number of turns. Artifacts and maybe even treasures except Fame can be absent in these respawned dungeons, but would surely make the late-game more dynamic other than "seek for random lvl 10-11 dungeon with a giant army". Starting areas of Faiths become completely dead and boring after approximately turn 80 currently.

[Boaster]

Aug 23, 2015 23:17:22 GMT -6 orzie said:

Y'know, the biggest problem with LOMSE which still remains in GS5 is a) dumb AI uncapable of using resources ergonomically and b) lack of dungeons. The latter ruins the interest in late game completely. I would even want the medium-rated dungeon respawn after a specific number of turns. Artifacts and maybe even treasures except Fame can be absent in these respawned dungeons, but would surely make the late-game more dynamic other than "seek for random lvl 10-11 dungeon with a giant army". Starting areas of Faiths become completely dead and boring after approximately turn 80 currently.

Right. The AI has always been pretty dumb. And I've wanted to improve the AI, but its incredibly complicated: possibly more so than adding a new quest, eh?

Respawning dungeons is something I wouldn't want to do, because there are already Marauders which spawn from unconquered dungeons. These are like moving dungeons, if you really consider it this way.

I do know that if you frequently trade with faiths, it actually makes it easier to improve relations with them and they will do better if you actually trade resources with them. Treat them more human in barter, and you may end up with a more-human player. For instance, in the latest game I have played, I have 3 faiths all with mutual devotion with me. This is not an easy feat to accomplish, it took several turns and even several times of trading "nothing" with them as well as trading resources for resources, sometimes even at a loss to me.

[orzie]

The new quest in fact is a task requiring a selection of skills rather than solely trial-and-error programming. But yeah, with the native AI made by the original game creators we can't expect too much from ourselves. In pro gamedev AI coding is a development so important that it stands out from the rest of programming.

Perhaps at least a permanent resource boost for each AI-controlled Faith could be a step towards a more confident behaviour of computer player. Yet, it might start abusing mercenaries just like it does in Legends of Urak (when Siegfried captures the Temple, Chaos decimates the amount of available Followers by hiring tons of troops until either resources or followers will run out).

[Boaster]

Aug 24, 2015 11:04:45 GMT -6 orzie said:

The new quest in fact is a task requiring a selection of skills rather than solely trial-and-error programming. But yeah, with the native AI made by the original game creators we can't expect too much from ourselves. In pro gamedev AI coding is a development so important that it stands out from the rest of programming.

Perhaps at least a permanent resource boost for each AI-controlled Faith could be a step towards a more confident behaviour of computer player. Yet, it might start abusing mercenaries just like it does in Legends of Urak (when Siegfried captures the Temple, Chaos decimates the amount of available Followers by hiring tons of troops until either resources or followers will run out).

Yes.

Also, upon reviewing the experiences per level, I dont know what I was thinking.… or maybe not thinking. But the progression works quite well and is "mathematically" sound.

[Boaster]

Here will be the experience sets in Gs6. Ignore the above.

  2    3    4    5     6     7     8     9    10    11    12    13    14    15
200  600 1200 2000  3000  4200  5600  7200  9000 11000 13200 15600 18200 21000 
250  750 1500 2500  3750  5250  7000  9000 11250 13750 16500 19500 22750 26250
300  900 1800 3000  4500  6300  8400 10800 13500 16500 19800 23400 27300 31500 L
350 1050 2100 3500  5250  7000  9100 11550 14350 17500 21000 24500 28350 32550 M
400 1200 2400 4000  6000  8400 11200 14400 18000 22000 26400 31600 37200 43200 H
450 1350 2700 4500  6750  9450 12600 16200 20250 24750 29700 35100 40950 47250 
500 1500 3000 5000  7500 10500 14000 18000 22500 27500 33000 39000 45500 52500 C
550 1650 3300 5500  8250 11550 15400 19800 24750 30250 36300 42900 50050 57750 
600 1800 3600 6000  9000 12600 16800 21600 27000 33000 39600 46800 54600 63000 L
650 1950 3900 6500  9750 13650 18200 23400 29250 35750 42900 50700 59150 68250 
700 2100 4200 7000 10500 14700 19600 25200 31500 38500 46200 54600 63700 73500 SC
750 2250 4500 7500 11250 15750 21000 27000 33750 41250 49500 58500 68250 78750 SL
-MILITARY UNITS SKIP A SET IN SEQUENCE-

  2    3    4     5     6
300 1800 4500  8400 13500 L
350 2100 5250  9100 14350 M
400 2400 6000 11200 18000 H

Next level experience takes the Base Value (exp for level 2), multiplied by the current level, then adds this value to the current level experience. I.E. base is 700, current level is 8 (25200 exp): 700 * 8 + 25200 = 31500. 31500 is the experience needed for Level 9.

[tempest747]

I'm sure its probably more involving a project than anyone has time for, but how difficult would it be to bring the battle map editor into some form of usable? 

[Boaster]

Sept 27, 2015 23:43:06 GMT -6 tempest747 said:

I'm sure its probably more involving a project than anyone has time for, but how difficult would it be to bring the battle map editor into some form of usable? 

It is usable actually.

[Boaster]

Slowly working at things for the GS6. Making an adjustment to Mercenary experience, where the experience they're hired at is factored by the current turn, city or village building, and the maximum level the unit can achieve.

[Boaster]

Nov 8, 2015 13:17:47 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Slowly working at things for the GS6. Making an adjustment to Mercenary experience, where the experience they're hired at is factored by the current turn, city or village building, and the maximum level the unit can achieve.

I was able to achieve this part here.

I will eventually be working on adding new sounds to the SFX archive, and adding things to the PIC6.

Contextually speaking, everything has been switched from GS5 to GS6 in terms of text.

[aguestos]

Will this beta be open, or do we have to sign up somewhere? I would love to participate once you have a version we can download.

[Boaster]

Mar 17, 2016 10:42:13 GMT -6 aguestos said:

Will this beta be open, or do we have to sign up somewhere? I would love to participate once you have a version we can download.

It will be open, and it will be subject to many changes. However, since I am working a lot, it means less time to spend on the project.

[lemminkainen]

I have a suggestion. When a lord dies, all their former units start attacking the killer, which is fine. But that leaves a city empty and free to be conquered with a bat. That's actually what I tend to do whenever a faith is killed, since I'm always keeping scouts a bit everywhere on the map anyway. Would it be possible (and would you find it intersting) to make the game spawn random marauders in the city as soon as it is empty, to make things a bit tougher? Maybe only in hard mode.

[Boaster]

May 12, 2017 5:08:26 GMT -6 lemminkainen said:

I have a suggestion. When a lord dies, all their former units start attacking the killer, which is fine. But that leaves a city empty and free to be conquered with a bat. That's actually what I tend to do whenever a faith is killed, since I'm always keeping scouts a bit everywhere on the map anyway. Would it be possible (and would you find it intersting) to make the game spawn random marauders in the city as soon as it is empty, to make things a bit tougher? Maybe only in hard mode.

That would be difficult to accomplish, though not impossible.

I have not been able to yet understand or work with AI "brains" as they are called internally.

[lemminkainen]

Ok. Also, did you remove completely from the game the possibility of AI players having legendary creatures? I just played a 150 turn game as death and none of my 7 ennemies had any. What is the reasoning behind this?

[Boaster]

May 13, 2017 6:24:16 GMT -6 lemminkainen said:

Ok. Also, did you remove completely from the game the possibility of AI players having legendary creatures? I just played a 150 turn game as death and none of my 7 ennemies had any. What is the reasoning behind this?

They should make them, but the AI may not be producing. I know I've seen Death with a Lich.

[lemminkainen]

Ok. Thanks for the quick answers. If you ever get into the AI brain it may be a thing to look for, because I don't think they're producing them often, no matter the number of turns or hard mode. I'm playing GS5 a lot these days, I'll tell you how often I see them if you want. By the way, don't hesitate if you want me to test some specific things for you in the game, too.

[Boaster]

Sure. Thanks!

[lemminkainen]

I've just played six games, mostly as fire and order. In three games there was the Lich. I also saw the Hydra once and Spiders once. So I think it's fine and the AI is making legendaries from time to time depending on their ressources. I had been tricked into thinking they were never making them, because for some reason the AI failed badly in the first few games I played.

[lemminkainen]

Aug 23, 2015 23:17:22 GMT -6 orzie said:

Y'know, the biggest problem with LOMSE which still remains in GS5 is a) dumb AI uncapable of using resources ergonomically and b) lack of dungeons. The latter ruins the interest in late game completely. I would even want the medium-rated dungeon respawn after a specific number of turns. Artifacts and maybe even treasures except Fame can be absent in these respawned dungeons, but would surely make the late-game more dynamic other than "seek for random lvl 10-11 dungeon with a giant army". Starting areas of Faiths become completely dead and boring after approximately turn 80 currently.

One thing I like to do is to go with WinMPQ to gs/PLACEDNG5.gs and modify the place where it says:

[1 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[1 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[1 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[1 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[2 limult demult ormult chmult fimult wamult eamult aimult]
[2 liminc deming ormina chmina fiminc wamina eaming aiminc]
[2 liming demina orming chminc fimina waminc eamina aiming]
[3 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[3 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[3 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[4 listat destat orstat chstat fistat wastat eastat aistat]
[4 limult demult ormult chmult fimult wamult eamult aimult]
[5 liminc deming ormina chmina fiminc wamina eaming aiminc]
[5 licave decave orcave chcave ficave wacave eacave aicave]
[6 listat destat orstat chstat fistat wastat eastat aistat]
[7 liminc deming ormina chmina fiminc wamina eaming aiminc]
[8 litowe detowe ortowe chtowe fitowe watowe eatowe aitowe]
[9 listat destat orstat chstat fistat wastat eastat aistat]
[10 limult demult ormult chmult fimult wamult eamult aimult]
[11 lidung dedung ordung chdung fidung wadung eadung aidung]

I often change it from game to game, adding more or less dungeons of different types, if I want a game to be less empty (especially if you play on a 196+ map). Another thing to consider is placing ZERO island with pre-placed dungeons on it. Marauders get stuck on islands. If you play on Urak, for example, at around turn 100 there's about half of the marauders stuck on islands (spawning from the Lich Castle, the Cyclops' Cave, and the Dragon Lair), which then makes the map feel very empty. On the contrary, when there're tons of marauders roaming on the map, it feels like they're acting as replacements for low/mid levels encounters to grant you experience and ressources.