Opinions on Faiths?

[plebeian]

    So... I am genuinely surprised there isn´t a thread about favourite/least favourite faith yet. In case there is, allow me to apologize, and please delete this one . That aside, I was curious as to which Faiths of Urak people prefer, and which you guys find lacking. Favourites, least favourites, desired changes, enjoyed play styles... anything, all opinions are welcome!

    Suppose I´ll start, just to kick-start this thread. Probably a popular choice by far, but my favourite faith is Order. Everything about it just... feels right. The background and music is ideal, the spell flavour texts and lore are concise and interesting, the units stand out in their own way, yet are balanced, the magic is diverse and engaging (Possession, Summon Order Spirit, Inspire/Watchtower, Justice, many tools for different encounters), yet the mage is balanced to that effect nicely (fragile alone, but has a deeper mana pool than others). Might seem even OP due to the abundance of Chaos/Death units in marauding parties and dwellings, especially Chaos due to spell and terrain penalties.

    To counter-balance my positives, guess I´ll share my negatives as well. Maybe a common topic, but I find Water to be the most lacking. It´s not a poor choice of a faith, it´s actually quite good as a whole! But it just feels... unfinished. As if it were the last faith that the developers worked on during the little time that they had for this game, which is why it seems somewhat rushed. The music is solid, especially coupled with the ocean ambience of the area, but the units make it difficult to become immersed, with all the amazon champions feeling like carbon copies of one another. The units are... average. They´re not difficult to do well with, but also not too easy. They´re balanced, just don´t stand out when comparing to other faiths. The one gimmick of Water, which is walking on coasts and across oceans, while useful, leaves them disadvantaged on maps without water, or even on land (they don´t have any favoured land-based terrain! Not to mention the disadvantage of appearing on Sand even if you stay on coastal ground). It has great late-game potential, though, especially with spells like Bloodlust and Gift of Life, however, it ends up being a jack-of-all traits of Life/Fire/Air/Earth magic while being a master of none, save for full-healing spells and making tiny puddles. Goes without saying, but this faith is a favourite target of Death players due to their mages being the second best healers in the game, having access to revival magic, AND affecting Death units at that.

    But enough of my self-centered commenting, I would like to see what others think! Comments, ideas, thoughts, opinions, anything! Let´s get a discussion going, maybe?

[Boaster]

I'd say with each faith, you have to play to their strengths.

In the mod, certain faiths have bolt spells which increase in radius slightly sooner than with other faiths.

Death, Earth and Water will increase radius by 1/5th caster level. At Level 10, their mages have a better mana to damage outputs compared to most faiths.

Life and Chaos have Pacify and Blind Rage, which works well to neutralize an enemy mage of lesser level, especially to interrupt.

And yeah, one thing that bothered me (still does) is the Sand causing Water faith units to walk slowly. It is quite a bother a long coastal battles.

And also, it makes sense for Water to not have a favored LAND terrain. Also, it makes sense that Earth has no penalty over any terrains. Same for flying units who don't even touch the land.

If I do make an update to the mod in the near future, one change I have in mind will removing penalty for water units over Desert, and apply their penalty over mountain terrain if they do not have that.

[plebeian]

Jul 15, 2018 14:29:53 GMT -6 Boaster said:

I'd say with each faith, you have to play to their strengths.

In the mod, certain faiths have bolt spells which increase in radius slightly sooner than with other faiths.

Death, Earth and Water will increase radius by 1/5th caster level. At Level 10, their mages have a better mana to damage outputs compared to most faiths.

Life and Chaos have Pacify and Blind Rage, which works well to neutralize an enemy mage of lesser level, especially to interrupt.

And yeah, one thing that bothered me (still does) is the Sand causing Water faith units to walk slowly. It is quite a bother a long coastal battles.

And also, it makes sense for Water to not have a favored LAND terrain. Also, it makes sense that Earth has no penalty over any terrains. Same for flying units who don't even touch the land.

If I do make an update to the mod in the near future, one change I have in mind will removing penalty for water units over Desert, and apply their penalty over mountain terrain if they do not have that.

    That´s a fair point. I never denied the strength of Water, though... It simply seemed like an underdeveloped faith to me, both in terms of lore and unit composition (the lizard folk are fine, even if I never read any mention of them, but Heavy Cavalry...? I know they border Order, but how do heavy warhorses and men in fully clad plate armor make sense for a Water nation?).

   

    I did not know about the cheaper bolt spells of Water, but it makes sense. It´s a nice counter-balance in comparison to Fire that you´ve added, priority of efficiency over damage. And it did always feel spammable at level 10.

    In terms of magic defence, Water actually has a lot of tools, i´ve noticed... The most notable one is Freeze, but Ice bolting enemy mages works, so does casting Bloodlust on a thief to snipe/interrupt them, or even using Gift of Life to undo the damage. However, even with all of that, I believe Water mages will only shine in the hands of competent players, since the AI definitely doesn´t make them look threatening...

    On a side note, I don´t really have an issue with unique Water spells not being balanced or useable, far from it. It´s only my opinion, but they feel somewhat more gimmicky and soulless than the unique spells of other faiths, like comparing Heal Self or Healing Waters to Fire Heal... They make lore sense, yes, no denying that, but they also feel like one trick ponies. Just my opinion, though.

    That´s a fair point relating to terrain, but it doesn´t really change the fact that in No-Water maps, the Water faith will be hampered more so than any other faith. Fairies and fliers can fly over, earthfolk can make slow and steady progress across any, but the amazons won´t have their coastlines and waters to use as shortcuts. Though... I suppose a similar effect would happen if you replace Life/Death/Order/Chaos/Fire terrain with their respective opposites...

    That change would make sense, but don´t water folk already get slowed by rocky terrain? I´ve recently checked, and they do get slowed, both during adventuring and combat. It´s just an idea, but maybe Swampland could be their other weakness, given how similar Water is to Life, and how similar Death is to Fire (not to mentioned the repulsion of moving through pestilent and defiled waters)? I understand if it´s unwise due to issues with balancing, especially since Death is often their northern neighbour.

    Either way, thank you for the comment! It was an insightful read, and encouraged new thoughts of the Water faith as a whole.

    

[Boaster]

I think swamp land would make less sense than Desert, really. Because Swamp is just mucky water. And I can see why Sand would be a detriment to some units, like Lizards, because it's dry land?

[plebeian]

Jul 16, 2018 8:07:55 GMT -6 Boaster said:

I think swamp land would make less sense than Desert, really. Because Swamp is just mucky water. And I can see why Sand would be a detriment to some units, like Lizards, because it's dry land?

    Makes sense from such a view, yes. Was thinking about it more as with the case of Life, where Swamp is caused by residual magic of death and decimation, resulting in an ¨impure¨ type of water, and an unholy phenomenon to the society worshiping it´s purity.

    On a side note, I was genuinely surprised that Pestilence actually did not deal any damage to adventuring armies, given the description of the spell (and how Balkoth loves ´marking´ targets with it before attacking): ¨...By drawing upon the forces of Death and decay, this spell not only decimates armies, but also twists the very land upon which they walk.¨. But it makes sense for it to be a normal land spell, given the short time it takes to research in comparison to others.

    But I was rambling, sorry... I appreciate your insight, as always. Terribly sorry for spamming so many threads like this, this game simply isn´t talked about anymore, sadly. ^^'