I think LOM2 should be a MMORPG

[Cinder]

itd be nice to choose from 3 classes of 8 faiths, and adventure the world controlling only 1 hero instead of an army.
im not saying lom 1 is not good, lom 1 is the best turn based ever!
but for a mmorpg lom would do very good.

[Boaster]

Cinder said:

itd be nice to choose from 3 classes of 8 faiths, and adventure the world controlling only 1 hero instead of an army.
im not saying lom 1 is not good, lom 1 is the best turn based ever!
but for a mmorpg lom would do very good.

I mentioned this to others on another LOM community board, but they want any sequel to maintain the turn-based qualities.

[kalle99j]

I am tired of mmorpg, Lom was a great game in its turnbased style

[remjith]

Yup, turn based

Let's not go with the herd and stay true to our faith

[Thandu]

I think an MMO LOM game would be interesting. It has a story that can be expanded upon, many, many races, and a roster of interesting and potential classes to make for it.

[archaalen]

NO MMO!

[thandu]

Don't understand all the MMO hatred. Though things like any race of any faith may need to go, the potential for races and classes is there.

Lets look at potential races: Archons, Barbarians, Amazons, High Elves, Dark Elves, Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes, Dryads, Storm Giants, Fire Giants, Stone Giants, Ogres, Orcs, Goblins, Trolls, Fire Dwarves, Faeries, Lizardmen, Centaurs. The world can be expanded upon easily enough.

Then we have classes. Now we have our three Warrior, Thief and Mage. All can be expanded upon.

A few samples:

Berserker - A man(or woman) of his sword, or spear, or axe... whatever weapon he wants, even ranged, and he fights like a maniac with it. He forgoes heavy armor in favor of movement and the cliche barbarian look. A damage based class of sorts that masters weapons.

Paladin - A holy (or maybe even unholy) servitor of faith and a protector and curer of the weak. Serves his people at the front lines with faith, courage, law and inspiration. A class built to tank and heal.

Wizard - An arcane spell caster. Their focus of magic is arcane, ranging from chaotic bolts to light based (order and life) magic and even shadow magic. They do have smidgeons of elemental offenses as well, but their strength lies in the Arcane and dealing magical damage and minor amounts of buff spells.

Elementalist - An elemental spell caster who masters Earth, Water, Air and Fire. They have some spiritual attunement, and even access to minor healing, but they function best blasting things with fire, ice, lightning and earth.

Druid - An elemental healer. Their power is best held over life and Earth, with sparse amounts of Air, Order and Chaos (druids believe in Neutral balance.) It gets a decent weapon and armor selections.

Hunter - A ranged damage dealer who relies on bow, crossbow, sling, blowgun... or whatever weapon it chooses. Their affinity for nature lets them shoot with the elements, and they can befriend animals.

Ranger - Part Druid, part hunter, and part melee. The ranger can fight with magic, missile or melee with fair sucess. It cannot summon pets and it cant wear the best armors, and its magic is a bit weaker, but it's a very good jack of trades.

Templar - Where the Paladin is a warrior who can cast support magic, the Templar uses offensive magic, and of almost every element. Their allegience isn't as stoic as Paladins, but their damage taking skills are about as good and damage dealiung skills are better.

Assassin - Death from behind. They are your devistating damage dealer if they can get behind the foe. They wear light armor and use no magic, but can use poison and dangerous stabbing strength. They also have decent ranged skills with throwing weapons.

Shaman - An elemental healer and damage hybrid. Shamans can wear decent armor, heal decently, and use lots of chaotic crowd control. They are an all around magic class.

Warlock - A devious and vile caster who enjoys the destructive powers of Fire and Death. Only the wild peoples of said faiths even attempt it. There are however rumors of some Archons who sacretly take up this dreaded art. It includes damage, debilitation, and demonic summoning.

Urak seems like a place that could go down the MMO path if it were to be given a serious glance.

[Boaster]

I wouldn't mind LOM2 being an MMORPG, so long as there was not a monthly fee, heheh.

But I see what you're saying, but if I may convey my own brand of ideas.

You have your eight faiths, three classes and your diversified races. Perhaps the combination of race and class would yield a unique class description.


An Order Human/Archon Warrior would be a Paladin, whereas an Earth Human/Archon Warrior would be a Fighter. Or such as a Chaos Faerie Thief would be a Tracker. Or a Death Giant Mage would be a Dreadbringer.

I don't think Giants should ever be allowed to be Thieves really.


But from what you mentioned Thandu, Archons, Barbarians and Amazons are Human sub-races. Just the way Eldren and Golgothan are Elf sub-races.


Human
-Amazon
-Archon
-Barbarian

Elf
-Eldren
-Golgothan

Giant
-Giant Type would depend on Faith
--Air: Storm
--Chaos: Ogre
--Death: Dread
--Earth: Stone
--Fire: Flame
--Order: Titan
--Life: Holy
--Water: Aqua

Faerie

Orcs

Goblins

Centaurs

Dwarf

Gnome

Halfling

Troll

Lizardmen



A Fire worshipping Lizard would be a Fire Lizard.


This would lead to a lot of possibilities but would also call for an urge to develope unique class names and types.

[sirsabin]

With all respect, thandu, your class list seems almost completely the same as the class list in World of Warcraft.

That's something of a problem in creating any MMORPG. How do you ensure that it is not just a clone of WoW in a different setting?

I would personally prefer that any sequel to Lords of Magic retain the turn-based strategy style, while expanding upon the RPG elements that were so weak in the first one.

[thandu]

Well, they may seem Warcraft-esque. However, WoW's list wasn't entirely original either. Thing is, a three class game can be boring in this day in age.


However, for an MMORPG, many people are used to the idea that certain races live in certain areas and have certain beliefs. After all, the characters we play in MMOs are usually follow certain basic guidelines.


As for things like Subraces, I think that as far as character creation screen goes, they will differentiate. However, as far as gear goes, if it reads 'Human' then it'll be safe to equip on Barbarian, Archon and Amazon alike.

So basically we have some subrace groups:
Humans: Archon, Barbarian, Amazon
Elf: Eldren, Golgothan
Dwarf: Rock and Red (Fire Dwarves seem a bit different than their stronger Earth cousins by more than just demeanour)
Giant: Fire, Storm, Stone (and probably a million more)
Trolls: Rock, and Regular (If we have the option of trolls)

Perhaps mixed breeds should be avoided (Half-elves, Half-orcs, half-ogres etc.)


Also, certain things should be considered as well, such as race being important for dungeon completion. For instance, you may need a Faerie to fly up a cliffside to unlock a door from the other side. Or maybe only a small race can fit in a small hole by crawling in. Perhaps a fire Follower needs to trudge through Lava (which they probably should be able to do without taking much damage) to lower a bridge.

There could be items labeled 'Huge.' 'Huge' weapons are weapons equippable by large races with better effect. A 'huge' 1h weapon may be two handed in a human's hand, and a two hander impossible to wield. I suppose 'huge' weapons could be wielded by Ogres, Giants, and maybe Trolls.

As for class setups: Mage, Warrior and Thief are good, but perhaps only as a basis for more diverse classes such as Paladin, Berserker, Druid, Ranger, Warlock and so on, and I'd never limit a class to only one race.

Grouping could be interesting to set up. Limitations will be based on leader, who cannot recruit enemy faiths. An Archon can recruit a Dwarf and Faerie, but not a Goblin. Meanwhile, the Dwarf can invite the Archon and the goblin, but not the Faerie. Does this make sense? Most of it is based loosely on the starting alliances that each race has in game.

It could be like this:
Order: Chaos, Fire, Death
Earth: Water, Air
Life: Death, Fire
Chaos: Air, Order
Death: Life, Air, Order
Water: Fire, Earth
Air: Death, Earth, Chaos
Fire: Water, Life, Order

It's not very even, but it's beta. I'm not trying to stereotype faiths as good or evil either. It is likely to change.

In any case, it makes playing interesting when a group of 20 or so can only have certain faiths in it.


Important to notice though, the idea in my head is that a sequel should NOT be the MMO. AFTER the sequel, I'm gungho for MMO.

[truesword]

Honestly I'd like to see a LOM sequal as a real time game.

Having everyone move, attack, gather resources, artifacts etc all at the same time would make LOM feel more like a real world where things are unfolding every moment. The turns honestly contradict the idea that it's a world and make it feel more like it's just a game.

If you can make the game more immersive then it's almost always a good idea.

[thandu]

orLoM has some surprisingly interesting lore. All you need to do is read the LoM manual's History and Faith Section.

Here are some interesting facts I've learned.

-Red Dwarves and Earth Dwarves are different from each other. Red Dwarves are usually better at thieving and smithing while Earth Dwarves are a bit stockier and are better skilled at mining and gemcutting, though they're still adept at forging.

-Speaking Fire, the Rock Hurler units I love so much are actually a race called Lesser Fire Giants, who were created by the Fire Giants of Old to be more agile but still very strong and help their masters on the battlefield.

-Water Giants were wiped out long ago. Only one sea giant is beleived to still be alive and she lives in the ocean, creating waves and creates sea creatures for her followers. She is Synora, also refered to by every Amazon Spell Book as their goddess.

-The Amazons can also be called the Viantha, who are matriarchical in nature. It is my guess that the very out of place Heavy Cavalry units are actually male Viantha who are trying to help out in war but lack in compare to the ladies that govern them. Well, that and the fact that Sierra got lazy on the spriting and forgot to darken their faces.

-Earthen folk are interesting. Halflings were not born to Earth but began to revere it later on. They are farmers and likely the source of Earth's food. They are actually evolutionally related to humans.

-Gnomes while being brilliant at Terramancing, are also skilled at metal crafting. They make great Iron blades and pottery that many seek.

-Order's religious dieties are the Triad. Not much is known about them but Archons believe that each is equal in their orderly control.

-Another name for the Shamans of Chaos is the Hrothark, who use animalistic and spirit magic. It is highly unpredictable, but you probably already knew THAT.

-Air Magic has many gods, all of whom were originally Air Giants whom created their Storm Giant followers.


With all of this, and more info, you have an interesting backstory. If I'm not mistaken, this game and its very potent story predate Everquest, and definitely predate Warcraft 3 (where the Lore of Warcraft began to expand at an astronomical rate.)

As such, here is how things could work:


-The Eight Faiths have each their own capital where their followers flock to do business and plan for war. Each race within the faith has his or her own town where they grow amongst their people. Each faith has at least two races that follow them, with usually one race being the dominant force.

Order has the Archons and the Centaurs who are believed to be an evolutionary Mutation of the Archon.

The Earth holds Earth Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes and Stone Giants.

Fire Giants, Lesser Fire Giants and Red Dwarves belong the volcanic Fire faith.

The Viantha/Amazons and the Lizard Men follow water. In this game, gender doesn't mean much for the Viantha race.

The lands of Chaos have Barbarians, Orges, Goblins and Cyclops. Most orcs have fled the Chaotic lands.

The Swampy lands Death has the Golgothan Dark Elves, Orcs, and Trolls as well as many undead servants that cannot be played.

Life Followers consist of the Eldren High Elves, Dryads and Brownies.

The Air is home to the Storm Giants, Pixies, and Faeries who soar so high.

So with this all, we have a fairly good setup.

Now we need a story. Perhaps this story takes place some time after the fall of Balkoth. The nation of Death is subdued, and many of the Dark Elves who fled for the green pastures of Earth feel safe returning to their former homes.

With their departure, the passing knowledge of their faith intrigued the trolls, as did the appeal of swampy life for their soily bodies and the promise of much flesh to feast upon from many battles.

The lands of Chaos have seen better days. Orcs have begun to grow edgy, as a mysterious bloodlust for conquest grips them. Taking the rest of the Chaos nations by storm, the rugged peoples banded together to drive out these invaders bringing an ironic sense of stability to the chaos nation. The orcs fled to the lands of Death, where their desire for war was welcomed heartily.

The people of Earth have been one of the more successful faiths, having lost very little besides the trolls, whom tended to be more trouble than help, and the skilled Dark Elven Cavalrymen, which was a bigger loss. Still, economic value is high as crops, iron, and gems make great business, which led to an alliance between the Earth and Order.

The Archons grow in a more traditional way of fruit and livestock in the way of cows and pigs and fine horses. It is no secret now that gnomes love cheese. In return, they buy iron and jewelry from the little folks and provide the dairy products that even the most lactose intolerant Gnome cannot pass up as well as horses.

The lands of Earth have also had another boost in the form of their largest ally. The Stone Giants long ago were nearly wiped out. In recent years, their numbers have begun to boom for almost a mysterious reason. As direct descendants of the Earth Giants who shaped the planet in the first war, they feel like silent watchers over their little friends. Unlike other giants, however, who tend to be built to study tomes and arcane powers, Stone Giants have a deeper spiritual and druidic connection that makes for skilled hunters, rangers, druids and shamen. When it comes to warfare, they are no slouch either.

The meadows of life are blighted. Balkoth's main target was the land of Llanwylen's followers. The Eldren and their allies suffered at the skewering weapons of their Dark Elven cousins. It was fortunate for these elves that their magic was good at circumventing some losses, but many could not be saved. Dryads and Brownies have become more alert to the problems of the world and have banded together with the elves to help restore the corrupted temple and to regrow the hilly meadows of their homeland.

The People of water were fairly safe from war. Being mostly neutral and protected by their favored element, sea creatures and top notch ships protected their homeland from the only way death could easily reach them. This wasn't to say that death ships were poor, they just struggled against sea serpents. However, the Viantha have dissention. Though the men are not in power, they are not weak. Male Viantha have proven to be effective cavaliers and excellent sailors and seafarers.

It was this seafaring nature that has, however, brought them to question their place in life. Other lands show feature of women and men, humans, holding equal status in the lands of Chaos and Life, and even in the wretched lands of Death. Many male Viantha have tried, therefore, to take up roles with wizardry and ritualistic magic to prove themselves as worthy of being listened to as well. This has spread to the lizard men whom they share homeland with, whom though physically structured a bit less sturdy than their women, to eke out a place of favor amongst the goddess. Could this internal struggle of gender equality lead to civil war? Probably not!

The people of fire were looked upon by Balkoth as a potential ally. His undead armies would easily be melted and eradicated by the fire if used against him, and their desire for destruction was easy to sway. In the end, Fire agreed, but mostly stuck to their own agenda. They suffered very little.

The Fire Giants still govern the volatile landscape they call home, though they have discovered better ways to manage fighting in the element they cannot weather. Building galleys that launch pots of oil that caught fire to burn the wooden hulls of other ships has gone a long way since Balkoth's fall. It still is not their strength, however.

The Lesser Fire Giants however have begun to question themselves and their Fire Giant creators. To them, they feel as though they truly are lesser, and shadows of their larger brethren with no purpose but to serve. Many have decided to prove thaat false as they do things such as hunting, sharpshooting, and even thievish work better than any true giant ever could. They feel strong understanding for the Red Dwarves and prefer their cast iron and steel smithing over the blades made of pure flame that their creators use.

The Red Dwarves are the economic trademasters of Fire. Skilled at dice, gambling, theiving and blacksmithing, Red Dwarves manage income very nicely, and find themselves making great trade with the Lesser Fire Giants, whose large size helps with the labor of carrying mass amounts of malleable and heavy materials.

Centaurs have begun to flock to the Plains where the people of Order live. Their understanding for the principles of Order have made them an impressive note to the judicious and chivilrous humans and their skills at hunting and fast combat are always welcomed.

There is trouble in the snowy mountains. A volcano has erupted and the ice and cold winds have been heated by sulfur and lava. Many Storm Giants blame the Fire Giants for this catastrophy, for it has been known that the mountains have never been volcanic. Of course, Gnomish geology has proven that this was a natural disaster, though many Air folks refuse to believe their sworn enemies of Earth.

The Air has managed and the volcano, according to the gnomes, shouldn't erupt again. With the help of icy dragons and magic, the newly risen mountain has frozen over once more, and Faeries have decided to structure their lands on the rocky crag high above ground level.

Pixies have always lived amongst the clouds neutrally, and for the most part, they still were, even after Balkoth's demise. The volcano however hit close to home, leaving them to seek aid from the Giants who willingly helped. Pixies have built a new home amongst the snow and have proven to be very adept with arcane magic.

The races of Chaos are often mistaken for stupid. This is false, especially so for the Ogres. While ogres may not be apt with numbers or common words, they are amongst the most magically adept race in Urak, with magical wizardry and priestly arts of almost all sorts at their fingertips and they can understand almost all runes. They are strong too, of course, and warfare is definitely not a shortcoming.

The Goblins, while small, are very good at inginuity. They have developed their own small crossbow, easily holdable with one hand and a small shield, and unlike the other wilder races, can understand the value of stoic defenses and can be sturdy simply through knowing how to be.

Cyclops race is the largest race of the Chaos lands. Their lone eye is amazingly sharp, moreso than any Elf's. Their numbers are small, but their precense that they provide Chaos in battle and in government is thunderous.


All this and more and you could make quite an MMO game.

[Shun]

I have the urge to do a little post here.

they want any sequel to maintain the turn-based qualities.

As would I. I really liked the current mix of turn-based/real-time in Lords of Magic. However, this has absolutely nothing to do with MMO or not. There are Turnbased MMORPG's(albeit there is a real time element in the game). Two off the top of my mind are Fairyland and Dofus. And Dofus is more than just turnbased it is based the tactical type system employed by many Strategy RPG type games. Anyways long story short MMO does not equate to being real-time. Anyhow, the difference here is that Lords of Magic Flips around the way Real-time and Turn-based mesh when compared to them(which is quite interesting in my opinion).

Err.. Anyways if it maintained its current meshing of Real-time and Turn-base I would be more than happy with a reasonably priced MMO.


Anyways the type of Combinations Mantera mentions would just be awesome(so what if some combinations seem weird to some people, weird is fun!).


And as a last note I am off to read my manual since thandu pointed out that bit(yeah, I probably read it once before years ago but I sure don't remember much).

[magusstrife]

I don't know how many of you are MUD fans (I personally haven't played any since Achaea, like 3 years ago), but a LOM themed MUD could work well also. The developers would be able to expand upon the story for the initial creation of the game, and then because MUDs are so heavily based on role-playing and the action of the players within the game, the players themselves would be able to help write some of the events in history.

For instance, say some random character that serves Choas manages to kill a number of Order characters within their home city, or desecrates a temple, it may cause a large scale war. If the battle leads to the destruction of a city, there will need to be new lore created to explain why a faction's city was moved, or why new alliances were formed.

*Shrug* Just a thought. I know I had fun tear-assing around in Achaea... kiting the Belladona into the noobie area ^_^.

[valamiras]

Muds rule, I worked on creating one with a team for a couple of months-- but it takes a very long time and, unfortunately, it is hard to get a good player base.

[asutinrandom]

But if it becomes an MMORPG it would have to compete with so many more, bigger games. And it just doesn't seem like that breed of game, per se.
But I must agree with you, IF it was made as an MMORPG it would rock the socks off all WOW and Warhammer nerds out there.(No offense to any please!)

[Venture Industries]

The only way it would be able to compete, and compete successfully, is if it offered something more to the average fantasy goer than just the average MMO.

it would rock the socks off

True, True.

[frosty]

Truesword-
An RTS would be nice, but I hate RTS for one reason. It makes it mindless point click.
I don't want to get beaten by the AI simply because they can click faster than me.
Me?
I like LOM because I can take my sweet time.
P:

For some reason I think something like... Ehm..
Oblivion but with more story and better dialogue.