Post by ludamad on Feb 18, 2008 0:31:47 GMT -6
The chance of an official LOM2 are close to 0, nothing short of a Korean e-sport revival of the game (which would be kick-ass [By the way]) would renew interest in it's profitability.
That being said, I can't write off LOM2 dreaming as entirely fruitless. As a programmer the only thing dissuading me from starting a fan-project is the daunting animation work that I'm not capable of (and if the same 3D terrain system or better wasn't in place, many would feel cheated). LOMSE definitely had an interesting gameplay formula, though noticeably rough around the edges.
I feel there are 3 ways you can go about improving the gameplay and not making an entirely unrelated game, without getting into specifics:
-A further pull towards strategy game
-A further pull towards RPG
-A rethinking of how the strategy and RPG elements should interact.
The Pull towards Strategy:
I feel that single capital city is decidedly an RPG element. It's a landmark, a place to visit. Being able to make more capital cities or even build wherever you want would take away from that, cheapen the attachment to the place. However, the game would be considerably more strategic I feel if:
-First off, the AI quit cheating. It's a no-brainer of course, but what might not be is the fact that Balkoth being a super-power is a very strong RPG element. However, that doesn't actually need to be taken away, unless you are aiming for a pure strategy game. As long as all the other races have your modest beginnings, the game will be considerably strategic provided they have decent AI. Balkoth being already strong sort of defines what LOM is. (Notice, I treat the sequel more as a remake because I feel there is more potential in the original to be explored before looking to continue the story, which basically ends with saying the same thing might happen.)
-Second, the resources were more scarce. Possibly the only way to make money would be securing the buildings such as gold mines and crystal mines, and you have the ability to make your own in select areas. That way followers would instead be used in defending those areas (in a good sequel, any hostile or marauding unit would take whatever you dont have occupied right away). Possibly the creation itself would cost followers along with resources to represent the workforce used and thereafter working there, and gain you fame as you expand your reach.
-Third, a tech tree of sorts. The idea of researching something and making all your current units better is very unLOM and is better suited for RTS games, but there were ways or progressing in LOM that I feel could be worked in or reworked.
For example, I feel that to upgrade capitals it would be better to assign followers to work on construction, costing you resources but also opening your technology possibilities, possibly the ability to create more units, or assign followers for improvements to buildings to allow for more units.
Higher level barracks should allow for better training conditions, and thus more experience conferred. Unit production should take a certain amount of time too, possibly conjuring a wisp takes a long ritual that needs to be prepared, and a warrior needs time at the barracks before he can be released. There would be a training capacity for the barracks (I use the term generally) as well. If there is a champion present for the entire duration, there is some experience conferred to the unit as well. This is in contrast with LOMSE's way of doing it and I think it's a lot more logical, and causes less hero down-time (which can be boring).
Higher level units will need high level barracks and possibly the presence of a champion, or the sacrifice of a certain type of artifact (maybe any fire scroll, for example). High level summons will certainly not be doable by the in-house mages, your lord may need to step in and show them a thing or two.
It should be a lot harder to progress in another faith's tech, as it is very unlikely that you will have many citizens of a fire colony racing to help you purify the land of Urak with water. Followers should be the basic resource for technology, and tech achievements generally should increase fame.
Sort of a tangent, fame should be different for how each faith views you, with heavy biases put. Maybe the marauders have come to even respect your vicious ways, and in time be open for parley (attacking other marauders wont decrease your fame to them, as they are independent). Water should have a very bad fame with the fire population, automatically. Certain actions should impress certain faiths, the backstabbing of your life ally should decrease your fame if you are water towards your own people, but chaos citizens may start taking a liking to your exploits.
The spells in LOM are a bit of a tricky problem. Currently they require a mage champion to sit there, not even guarding the mage tower, passively researching spells. The research time isn't horrible with high enough levels, and it's free. The problem is that high level units are a huge commodity in LOMSE, and mages aren't exactly cheap. As well, to be able to simply assign followers into research is far too abstract for the detailed art of magic. I would think that as you improve your mage tower some spells are automatically given to you, while others require a mage to stop there and finish up the work (maybe a level 10 mage needs to finish up the work on a particularly epic spell, which a level 8 mage couldn't, the mage takes 3 turns, a higher level mage would do it faster). Basically, you may still need heroes, but the down-time would be a lot less.
Well that was a lot for what should have been one section and im not even done with it, so I'll cut it there for now, and reply later with the other spectrums of thought. RPG based ideas will focus on the hero a lot more, maybe customization, and a lot of personality to the other lords, without the possibility for replacement lords.
That being said, I can't write off LOM2 dreaming as entirely fruitless. As a programmer the only thing dissuading me from starting a fan-project is the daunting animation work that I'm not capable of (and if the same 3D terrain system or better wasn't in place, many would feel cheated). LOMSE definitely had an interesting gameplay formula, though noticeably rough around the edges.
I feel there are 3 ways you can go about improving the gameplay and not making an entirely unrelated game, without getting into specifics:
-A further pull towards strategy game
-A further pull towards RPG
-A rethinking of how the strategy and RPG elements should interact.
The Pull towards Strategy:
I feel that single capital city is decidedly an RPG element. It's a landmark, a place to visit. Being able to make more capital cities or even build wherever you want would take away from that, cheapen the attachment to the place. However, the game would be considerably more strategic I feel if:
-First off, the AI quit cheating. It's a no-brainer of course, but what might not be is the fact that Balkoth being a super-power is a very strong RPG element. However, that doesn't actually need to be taken away, unless you are aiming for a pure strategy game. As long as all the other races have your modest beginnings, the game will be considerably strategic provided they have decent AI. Balkoth being already strong sort of defines what LOM is. (Notice, I treat the sequel more as a remake because I feel there is more potential in the original to be explored before looking to continue the story, which basically ends with saying the same thing might happen.)
-Second, the resources were more scarce. Possibly the only way to make money would be securing the buildings such as gold mines and crystal mines, and you have the ability to make your own in select areas. That way followers would instead be used in defending those areas (in a good sequel, any hostile or marauding unit would take whatever you dont have occupied right away). Possibly the creation itself would cost followers along with resources to represent the workforce used and thereafter working there, and gain you fame as you expand your reach.
-Third, a tech tree of sorts. The idea of researching something and making all your current units better is very unLOM and is better suited for RTS games, but there were ways or progressing in LOM that I feel could be worked in or reworked.
For example, I feel that to upgrade capitals it would be better to assign followers to work on construction, costing you resources but also opening your technology possibilities, possibly the ability to create more units, or assign followers for improvements to buildings to allow for more units.
Higher level barracks should allow for better training conditions, and thus more experience conferred. Unit production should take a certain amount of time too, possibly conjuring a wisp takes a long ritual that needs to be prepared, and a warrior needs time at the barracks before he can be released. There would be a training capacity for the barracks (I use the term generally) as well. If there is a champion present for the entire duration, there is some experience conferred to the unit as well. This is in contrast with LOMSE's way of doing it and I think it's a lot more logical, and causes less hero down-time (which can be boring).
Higher level units will need high level barracks and possibly the presence of a champion, or the sacrifice of a certain type of artifact (maybe any fire scroll, for example). High level summons will certainly not be doable by the in-house mages, your lord may need to step in and show them a thing or two.
It should be a lot harder to progress in another faith's tech, as it is very unlikely that you will have many citizens of a fire colony racing to help you purify the land of Urak with water. Followers should be the basic resource for technology, and tech achievements generally should increase fame.
Sort of a tangent, fame should be different for how each faith views you, with heavy biases put. Maybe the marauders have come to even respect your vicious ways, and in time be open for parley (attacking other marauders wont decrease your fame to them, as they are independent). Water should have a very bad fame with the fire population, automatically. Certain actions should impress certain faiths, the backstabbing of your life ally should decrease your fame if you are water towards your own people, but chaos citizens may start taking a liking to your exploits.
The spells in LOM are a bit of a tricky problem. Currently they require a mage champion to sit there, not even guarding the mage tower, passively researching spells. The research time isn't horrible with high enough levels, and it's free. The problem is that high level units are a huge commodity in LOMSE, and mages aren't exactly cheap. As well, to be able to simply assign followers into research is far too abstract for the detailed art of magic. I would think that as you improve your mage tower some spells are automatically given to you, while others require a mage to stop there and finish up the work (maybe a level 10 mage needs to finish up the work on a particularly epic spell, which a level 8 mage couldn't, the mage takes 3 turns, a higher level mage would do it faster). Basically, you may still need heroes, but the down-time would be a lot less.
Well that was a lot for what should have been one section and im not even done with it, so I'll cut it there for now, and reply later with the other spectrums of thought. RPG based ideas will focus on the hero a lot more, maybe customization, and a lot of personality to the other lords, without the possibility for replacement lords.
