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Post by pigtails on May 28, 2009 17:36:46 GMT -6
Well, that's anybody. But I'm wondering if there are any cheap tactics anybody uses which significantly turn tides. Maybe a certain artifact? Before when Axe of Chaos and Warlord's Helmet gave insane bonuses. Maybe a certain spell, or spell combination? Such as, before I began modding, people could use Freeze and Cloud of Steam to defeat high level encounters, solo, at low levels. Grossly imbalanced tactics. I don't consider that unbalanced, I consider that clever, and advanced game play knowledge. Like I've said before I don't mind things being unbalanced. For instance, the next update is going to patch a loophole in which I would be able to Hire Mercenaries from my local buildings after a level upgrade. Also, prior to this fix I would be able to summon multiple Legendary Creatures, without limit, and I would be able to Train/Hire beyond my available resources. Must you fix everything? If I make a screw up on my stealth attack patterns with a thief, usually solo, one tactic I like to do is select subdue and pick an enemy champion, it will let me return to hiding. Another one that's really unfair is letting a thief get surrounded by melee units so he cant move and then try to subdue a champ. He will subdue the melee units surrounding him and other melee units will not be able to close in on it for the kill. This was of course several versions ago, but I don't know if it still works. True. This may yet be something that I can fix. Add a condition to the subdue equation to make the result be zero any time the unit is not a champion. As far as the returning to stealth, that's not something I can fix. Just like the Parry bug, to avoid missile attacks and just like the Detect Thief button in combat. But, I may yet be able to fix the Subdue any unit, when surrounded, problem. wait wait wait... you mean you're using this thread to figure out all the down and dirty cheats that not only make things unfair but also incredibly colorful and beautiful? Some of this stuff sounds useful and you want to remove it? That last thing didn't sound like a problem to me! Some of the stuff in this thread does some dodgy but why change all of it? |
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Post by Boaster on May 28, 2009 19:18:28 GMT -6
Because the people who originally tested the game did a shitty job; but the original testers may not have had much time since the game was rushed by the distributor.
There are cheap tactics that are pure cheese.
- Abusing mercenaries to get a lot of experience from high level dungeons for Lords.
- Abusing Scouts and the Dumb AI by sending scouts into dungeons with enemy mages and having them waste their mana, then sending your army in to clean up with no threat of taking damage from spells.
- Using Freeze and Cloud of Steam (which lasted forever in combat without limitation, except if dispelled) to let an enemy army Attack a frozen target to their own death.
- Ebony Plate of the Void when it cast Decay on enemies, instead of Poison, which if a Dark Warrior parried, all the enemies would eventually die from Decaying to death.
- When Decay, Poison Cloud, Asphyxiate and Drowning were fatal to targets (reduce HP to zero or less).
- Dragonscale Armor blasting fire darts at enemies until death, and the Warrior could just stand there parrying.
While sure, they made for fun solo games for beginners, they take away any difficulty you might otherwise live to experience.
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Post by pigtails on May 29, 2009 21:23:04 GMT -6
then it seems to me you would avoid the loopholes.
I like loopholes. A good example would be in some of these new online games where people can pay or not. Those who are genuinely good at playing and know the game in and out can succeed wile others buy their way up. Nowadays site owners iron out every broken code so only the truly rich or the truly connected win.
Not the same but similar.
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Post by Boaster on May 30, 2009 11:28:15 GMT -6
This isn't a game where you can buy your way in though. And there are 3 different difficulties that are apart of this game. If you expect to play on Hard surviving on loopholes, then do you really deserve to play on Hard?
Also as an example, if you play other human players in multiplayer and you know of a gross loophole or cheap tactic that a player intends to use against you, is that fair to you?
I try to make things as fair and balanced as I can (unlike Fox news, AM I RITE? [Laugh out Loud]).
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Post by Cirvante on Jun 1, 2009 4:52:07 GMT -6
Something I found out to be quite an unfair advantage is that Air thieves can fly on grounds where other units can't go and snipe them from there. I tried it for some time (Air thief Lord) and could free my temple in the beginning solo and with some luck and time clear a lot of encounters up to level 7. So your Air thief levels a lot and around round 20-30 you can have him on Lvl 12 and put him in your Thief guild. Wait some turns and recruit a full army of Lvl 8 Air thieves and Lvl 5 ranged units. With that army you could easily rape Balkoth.  Though Balkoth is even more unfair, seeing as he is even better than Air thieves with his range attacks and can cast spells and heals himself by attacking. I was able to clear dungeons solo with him. I think he's even stronger than Fafner. So yeah, if you get an flying ranged unit on a safe ground and kill the enemy ranged units first you can easily kill an entire army. Once I even cleared the troll bridge and the thing behind it with a level 2 Air thief (there were no ranged units). Just takes a fuckload of time. ^^ |
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Post by Boaster on Jun 1, 2009 6:06:04 GMT -6
While Flying Ranged units can be cheap, the Faerie Thieves are low on HP.
Troll Bridges and Troll Caves at high levels, in my mod, will have a few ranged units.
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Post by cirvante on Jun 3, 2009 13:58:19 GMT -6
Well, yeah, they have really few hit points but I think they are still a lot more unbalanced than the other thieves. If you get an Air thief and this artifact (in German it's called "Aramougs Amulett") that allows you to stun groups of enemies (I don't know if you still have that one in your version) then you can clear out dungeons with only your thief. And getting ranged units on lvl 5 very early in the game may be a deadly advantage (liberate the life temple or get the village between Air and Life for the Life archers). But the flying aspect is also the reason why I think that the Air dragon is better than Fafnir. Well, Fafnir looks way more cool, though.  |
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Post by pigtails on Jun 11, 2009 16:47:03 GMT -6
(unlike Fox news, AM I RITE? [Laugh out Loud]). amirite! Well, yeah, they have really few hit points but I think they are still a lot more unbalanced than the other thieves. If you get an Air thief and this artifact (in German it's called "Aramougs Amulett") that allows you to stun groups of enemies (I don't know if you still have that one in your version) then you can clear out dungeons with only your thief. I still think that it's okay for an easy high level fight to come along once in a wile. Most of the time you'll get nailed by a mage whether you're in stealth or not and you most definitely won't survive in a high level death encounter, no unit can do those alone. |
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gunther
Member LVL 8
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Posts: 128
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Post by gunther on Jun 18, 2009 10:27:05 GMT -6
one tactic i use is acualy... common sence you would put the sturdier more powerful units in front(Warriors)frailer units in back(archers and mages) and hope the enemy dosent circle around
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Post by Boaster on Jun 18, 2009 11:24:50 GMT -6
one tactic i use is acualy... common sence you would put the sturdier more powerful units in front(Warriors)frailer units in back(archers and mages) and hope the enemy dosent circle around Anyone who doesn't wouldn't be very good at real life combat either, [Laugh out Loud]. |
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Post by Solarr8 on Jun 19, 2009 13:46:52 GMT -6
Hi boaster. I'm not much for introductions so... 1. All and all i really like the complexity you have added to the game. Most notably to me how you added so many more unit stats and made the calculations for battle more complex and even. No longer do i start a game and in less than 12 turns death has killed a lord or a lord has taken over another lord. Huge. 2. As far as a general a i change. It seems that at least for me conquering the temple is done within 1 or 2 turns, why does the a i take so long to conquer their temples? Does this make sense? (not a problem with your mod just a general issue in general. 3. Scrolls. These things in my opinion are way too numerous in the game not to be expendable. I do NOT however feel that other artifacts numbers in general should be boosted to compensate. I like how the really good artifacts (non scrolls) are few and far between. It makes them worth allot more. I can tell the original designers of the game intended artifacts to be easy to get because that was pretty much the only way to get good stat ups but no longer so with your changes  3a. Even with your incoming changes to only wizards being able to use scrolls and it costing them real manna there are so many that can be easily dumped on other lords to get great faction. Using scrolls alone i was by turn 17 able to get every single faction in urak to at least like me enough to earn their cities after i liberate their temple. Perhaps the barter values of scrolls could be less but i still think their number needs to be reduced significantly. 4. Not really a tactic thing but don't want to create a separate post somewhere else because i see no where i could post general suggestions... OK I like with the marauding parties you changed the text but as far as sir Lancelot for order. It looks like you changed the text and the graphic... Why? It really takes away from the glory of summoning sir lance allot. |
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Post by Boaster on Jun 19, 2009 23:03:42 GMT -6
Hi boaster. I'm not much for introductions so... 1. All and all i really like the complexity you have added to the game. Most notably to me how you added so many more unit stats and made the calculations for battle more complex and even. No longer do i start a game and in less than 12 turns death has killed a lord or a lord has taken over another lord. Huge. This is mostly done in parts of making Lords unkillable in Auto-calc combat. AI can only auto-calc battles and therefore can never kill each other. 2. As far as a general a i change. It seems that at least for me conquering the temple is done within 1 or 2 turns, why does the a i take so long to conquer their temples? Does this make sense? (not a problem with your mod just a general issue in general. Can't say why the AI does what it does. But it's all mathematically based. Also, Great Temples are now affected by the Level of placement and the difficulty. If you're playing on Hard mode, Great Temples will never be less than Level 6 in difficulty. Play something other than Easy and you may find more of a challenge, especially if you play on an Official GS5 map. 3. Scrolls. These things in my opinion are way too numerous in the game not to be expendable. I do NOT however feel that other artifacts numbers in general should be boosted to compensate. I like how the really good artifacts (non scrolls) are few and far between. It makes them worth allot more. I can tell the original designers of the game intended artifacts to be easy to get because that was pretty much the only way to get good stat ups but no longer so with your changes They're less numerous on Hard mode, as there are fewer scroll possibilities. 3a. Even with your incoming changes to only wizards being able to use scrolls and it costing them real manna there are so many that can be easily dumped on other lords to get great faction. Using scrolls alone i was by turn 17 able to get every single faction in urak to at least like me enough to earn their cities after i liberate their temple. Perhaps the barter values of scrolls could be less but i still think their number needs to be reduced significantly. That Future Update that's striked through was a possibility at one point, but has been removed for the time being. I ran into a problem and became more trouble than it was worth. 4. Not really a tactic thing but don't want to create a separate post somewhere else because i see no where i could post general suggestions... OK I like with the marauding parties you changed the text but as far as sir Lancelot for order. It looks like you changed the text and the graphic... Why? It really takes away from the glory of summoning sir lance allot. I didn't change the way he looks, except for when you use him as a Leader. At that point he's a little colorizes by an in-game palette effect. |
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Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Jul 9, 2009 7:22:33 GMT -6
Cheapest tactic I know?
The Spawn Cave spell. Get a Necromancer Lord, Lich, or Balkoth and just enter in with a warrior and a thief. Wash, rinse, repeat until you can train maximum level units and champions.
Sure it takes several turns (usually around 30 or so), but when done on single player, Death will ravage Urak without too much trouble. While you are training your champions, you can also build up the necessary resources to train your max level units.
The game gets really boring for me after that though. Once you can run through and conquer anything without too much trouble, it kind of gets old for me real quick.
I would say eliminate the Spawn Cave spell entirely and replace it with something else. Maybe attach that spell to an artifact or something so you don't have this huge advantage in training when you're playing as Death.
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Post by Boaster on Jul 9, 2009 11:12:26 GMT -6
Cheapest tactic I know? The Spawn Cave spell. Get a Necromancer Lord, Lich, or Balkoth and just enter in with a warrior and a thief. Wash, rinse, repeat until you can train maximum level units and champions. Sure it takes several turns (usually around 30 or so), but when done on single player, Death will ravage Urak without too much trouble. While you are training your champions, you can also build up the necessary resources to train your max level units. The game gets really boring for me after that though. Once you can run through and conquer anything without too much trouble, it kind of gets old for me real quick. I would say eliminate the Spawn Cave spell entirely and replace it with something else. Maybe attach that spell to an artifact or something so you don't have this huge advantage in training when you're playing as Death. Even when I play as Death, I hardly use that spell. |
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Post by swiftfoxmark2 on Jul 9, 2009 11:29:13 GMT -6
Cheapest tactic I know? The Spawn Cave spell. Get a Necromancer Lord, Lich, or Balkoth and just enter in with a warrior and a thief. Wash, rinse, repeat until you can train maximum level units and champions. Sure it takes several turns (usually around 30 or so), but when done on single player, Death will ravage Urak without too much trouble. While you are training your champions, you can also build up the necessary resources to train your max level units. The game gets really boring for me after that though. Once you can run through and conquer anything without too much trouble, it kind of gets old for me real quick. I would say eliminate the Spawn Cave spell entirely and replace it with something else. Maybe attach that spell to an artifact or something so you don't have this huge advantage in training when you're playing as Death. Even when I play as Death, I hardly use that spell. Yeah, it tends to take a while when you use it, so I can see most players just exploring rather than hiding out in their territory and coming out at full strength later. Plus if you're playing in multiplayer, human opponents would be more likely to attack you with overwhelming force before you could finish the training. |
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QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Jul 10, 2009 2:36:53 GMT -6
ok cheap tactics i use is someone chasing me so i use movement spell. the junkest one is WINDWALK by the air faith (but still good if u know how to use it!) 15% movement they cant chase me very far and next turn they cant move at all so i use blizzard and w/e and maybe catch a ride on my ship  ------- i have other cheap tactics like terrain-spelling... i started to use it after death was trying to kill me >=( so i use my mage in tower to buy potions of mana and transfer to CREATE RIVERS AND SURROUND WATER and then kill them also more cheap tactic is i use blind rage and keep blinking while every1 else chases... kills really easily also more cheap tactic is get all warrior units (1 warrior champion is usually enough) put him in the middle and just PARRY. he can tank everytime while every1 else kills missile. |
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Post by Boaster on Jul 10, 2009 6:07:56 GMT -6
ok cheap tactics i use is someone chasing me so i use movement spell. the junkest one is WINDWALK by the air faith (but still good if u know how to use it!) 15% movement they cant chase me very far and next turn they cant move at all so i use blizzard and w/e and maybe catch a ride on my ship ------- i have other cheap tactics like terrain-spelling... i started to use it after death was trying to kill me >=( so i use my mage in tower to buy potions of mana and transfer to CREATE RIVERS AND SURROUND WATER and then kill them also more cheap tactic is i use blind rage and keep blinking while every1 else chases... kills really easily also more cheap tactic is get all warrior units (1 warrior champion is usually enough) put him in the middle and just PARRY. he can tank everytime while every1 else kills missile. To some extent, these might all be "cheap" but for the most part they're strategy. But remember when you use movement spells, it's more movement today for less movement tomorrow. These movement spells only target armies you own. However, the offensive ones such as Fog, Mud Slide or Blizzard focus on enemy armies specifically. If you can manage to use Locusts and one of these movement spells together, you could literally just tag along the targeted army and wait for them to be so weak you could obliterate them with a couple volleys of big ticket offensive spells (Inferno comes to mind easily). |
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gunther
Member LVL 8
"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Posts: 128
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Post by gunther on Jul 10, 2009 9:54:33 GMT -6
i have other cheap tactics like terrain-spelling... i started to use it after death was trying to kill me >=( so i use my mage in tower to buy potions of mana and transfer to CREATE RIVERS AND SURROUND WATER and then kill them. i do that alot also although my ships incounter very little resistance is there a way you can make the AI build more ships boaster |
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QUAAL
Member LVL 7
I'd rather by spying!
Posts: 103
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Post by QUAAL on Jul 10, 2009 18:57:28 GMT -6
ok i have another because when u said inferno my mage NEVER DIES! very cheap tactic if u have energy stone (its not on website)
if she at a good lvl, with just energy stone itself she can kill almost everything that comes her way! energy stone recovers mana after every battle i think... i would not want to meet the fire mage like this xD
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Post by Boaster on Jul 10, 2009 19:05:00 GMT -6
ok i have another because when u said inferno my mage NEVER DIES! very cheap tactic if u have energy stone (its not on website) if she at a good lvl, with just energy stone itself she can kill almost everything that comes her way! energy stone recovers mana after every battle i think... i would not want to meet the fire mage like this xD A decent Water, Earth or Chaos mage can take out a Fire Mage EASY. |
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