Cheap Tactics?

[QUAAL]

maybe u but not the computer, [Laugh out Loud]

i got another cheap tactic with water

use the spell create river and make it so no land is around the stronghold or even ur entire 'area'. no one dare invades you!

[a dude yo]

this isnt really an exploit of the game engine or anything like that, but it is pretty broken.

easy way to win on hard mode:

choose custom earth warrior. take the obsidian plate artifact. pump the rest of the points into improving your lord in some way, easiest is to max out your lords level.

start game. equip artifact. do the lvl 3-4 dungeons first, then the 5-7 dungeons. keep going higher.

since your defense is so high nothing besides mages can touch you. also you will be gaining xp really fast and more levels really fast, upgrading your defense even more.

if you get debuffed, dispel using the plate.

some other units are mildly dangerous to you. fire dragons and thunder drakes can burn you. high level thieves, especially death assassins may be able to get through your armor with aimed missiles.

once you hit 15 which will be fairly quickly, you can walk through almost any dungeon below level 10 guaranteed, most level 10 dungeons, and depending what artifacts you find you can even solo some level 11 dungeons. i got the ring of healing once and was pretty much unstoppable. another good one is the amulet of indecision so you can hand of fate those annoying mages.

you can clear your temple before turn 7 easily this way. you can hit level 15 before turn 14. once you clear the temple, take the thief with you and just have him stealth and hide away so he gains xp too. this way you can later train max level units from the thieves guild and the barracks. you dont really need to though, an single level 15 earth lord can take out the entire game if you play it right.

this probably also works with order and death, maybe water too. the high level warrior champions are by far the fastest way to beat the game because they simply ignore normal units. i dont know how you could compete using thief or mage champions when your opponent is using this strategy - by the time your thief or mage clears the temple your opponent will be clearing level 10 dungeons at least.

also it is a very easy strategy to use. doesnt require much micromanagement at all.

solution: teach the computer AI how to use the berserk command.

i guess in a player vs player battle this tactic wouldnt work as well; players actually use berserk, smarter spell choice etc. but just the fact that you'll be getting stronger so much faster is probably strategically unbalancing.

of course, it could just be that this is the actual usual pace of the GS5R mod. in which case i am dumb. however if it is will you guys please tell me how to take a hard temple by turn 7 (more like 4 really) using thieves and mages?

[a dude yo]

this isnt really an exploit of the game engine or anything like that, but it is pretty broken.

easy way to win on hard mode:

choose custom earth warrior. take the obsidian plate artifact. pump the rest of the points into improving your lord in some way, easiest is to max out your lords level.

start game. equip artifact. do the lvl 3-4 dungeons first, then the 5-7 dungeons. keep going higher. you can probably jump right into level 5 dungeons to be honest.

since your defense is so high nothing besides mages can touch you. also you will be gaining xp really fast and more levels really fast, upgrading your defense even more.

if you get debuffed, dispel using the plate.

mages are the main danger. best is to use thieves to scout out dungeons whiles stealthed. however as your hitpoints increase lower level mages quickly become irelevant as they cant do enough damage to kill you.

some other units are mildly dangerous to you. fire dragons and thunder drakes can burn you. high level thieves, especially death assassins may be able to get through your armor with aimed missiles.

once you hit 15 which will be fairly quickly, you can walk through almost any dungeon below level 10 guaranteed, most level 10 dungeons, and depending what artifacts you find you can even solo some level 11 dungeons. i got the ring of healing once and was pretty much unstoppable. another good one is the amulet of indecision so you can hand of fate those annoying mages.

you can clear your temple before turn 7 easily this way. you can hit level 15 before turn 14. once you clear the temple, take the thief with you and just have him stealth and hide away so he gains xp too. this way you can later train max level units from the thieves guild and the barracks. you dont really need to though, an single level 15 earth lord can take out the entire game if you play it right.

this probably also works with order and death, maybe water too. the high level warrior lords are by far the fastest way to beat the game because they simply ignore normal units. i dont know how you could compete using thief or mage champions when your opponent is using this strategy - by the time your thief or mage clears the temple your opponent will be clearing level 10 dungeons at least.

also it is a very easy strategy to use. doesnt require much micromanagement at all.

solution: teach the computer AI how to use the berserk command.

i guess in a player vs player battle this tactic wouldnt work as well; players actually use berserk, smarter spell choice etc. but just the fact that you'll be getting stronger so much faster is probably strategically unbalancing.

of course, it could just be that this is the actual usual pace of the GS5R mod, and all you guys routinely clear temples that fast. in which case i am dumb. however if it is will you guys please tell me how to take a hard temple by turn 7 (more like turn 4 really) using a thief or mage champion?

[Boaster]

When using the Lord Editor, or Cheats, the game is much easier.

[skrag]

Cheap tactic / strategy / whatever:

Using ships to pick off troops hanging around the coast - i've destroyed large groups of marauders with a ship's powerful long-ranged weapons without taking any damage, and would have killed an enemy lord (I retreated and let him live, it was just too cheap a tactic) ;D

… would it be possible to encourage the AI to build more ships? I have only ever seen ONE AI-controlled ship, in perhaps fifty games of LOMSE

[szopen]

Hey dude, what are you typing about warriors tactics I observed too. But it's also possible to get an adventage plaing with a thief, especialy chaos one. In custom lord mode, take artifact- chacram of enthropy and max out lord's level (probably wont give a single one level up) OR don't take artifact and only max out the level.

Then, starting from the weakest dungeons (even lv.1) clear out the terain around the base with tactics as it is:

Appear, throw (it may be an aimed shot, if the target have much health), kill, dissapear. If u have stealth factor strong enought, you can do this. Eliminate shooters first, you won't even need aimed shots for them. Then, you can stay as far from target as you can always you're killing someone new. Then dissapear and move away from them.

The only condition of success will be stealth factor strong enought.

[a dude yo]

yeah, restealthing sniping thieves can do pretty well too, except that their lower hp makes them much more vulnerable to mages, whereas the warriors can just take the hits from the mage bolt spells and keep on trucking. also they are a lot harder to play, since so much micro gets really annoying, whereas with a warrior you just click to attack an enemy, set the combat speed to 30, and wait.

boaster, if you read this, a question about the intent of your mod. considering you depowered the cheap vanilla dragonscale armor+parry, and freeze+steam cloud which allowed you to solo dungeons you wouldnt have been able to otherwise, is your intent to mod this game into a version that forces you to use squads of units, rather than solo superunits? the way i see it, the extension of lord levels to 15 together with the addition of high armor artifacts (not just the obsidian plate/armor of the archons, also the relatively plentiful x/3 armor artifacts) has the side effect of rendering normal units obsolete - in some cases at a fairly early stage of the game.

also just taking an earth warrior lord on hard mode is enough to solo him up to 15, even without using the lord editor. it just takes a few more turns.

[Boaster]

Apr 8, 2010 23:19:54 GMT -6 @a dude yo said:

yeah, restealthing sniping thieves can do pretty well too, except that their lower hp makes them much more vulnerable to mages, whereas the warriors can just take the hits from the mage bolt spells and keep on trucking. also they are a lot harder to play, since so much micro gets really annoying, whereas with a warrior you just click to attack an enemy, set the combat speed to 30, and wait.

boaster, if you read this, a question about the intent of your mod. considering you depowered the cheap vanilla dragonscale armor+parry, and freeze+steam cloud which allowed you to solo dungeons you wouldnt have been able to otherwise, is your intent to mod this game into a version that forces you to use squads of units, rather than solo superunits? the way i see it, the extension of lord levels to 15 together with the addition of high armor artifacts (not just the obsidian plate/armor of the archons, also the relatively plentiful x/3 armor artifacts) has the side effect of rendering normal units obsolete - in some cases at a fairly early stage of the game.

also just taking an earth warrior lord on hard mode is enough to solo him up to 15, even without using the lord editor. it just takes a few more turns.

Artifacts that you start with typically scale with your level. This allows starting artifacts to be useful from start to finish.

While I have removed much of the cheese (steam+freeze) there are other ways to win in combat.

In experienced hands, a player can manage to solo dungeons. And generally, experience has also been scaled to match the challenge. Typically players will try to get their Lord as much experience as possible by solo-ing dungeons or using a small army. Even if you solo your Lord through much of the lower level dungeons, 6 and under, you will not yet have enough experience to reach level 12 even if you cleared encounters in other regions.

Also removed the option of really soaking up experience by using Mercenaries late in the game just to soak exp. Because what I would do, and other players would do, would train units in barracks or guild, then hire fleets mercenaries to accompany their Lord, kill a majority of the enemies then suicide remaining mercenaries. This would leave the Lord to finish off the remainders and then soak up all the experience for him or her self. This is why mercenaries cannot be conferred experience and why they cannot be found in your local barracks or guild once you liberate your temple or have a stronghold.

While some artifacts will provide your Champions with enough defense to take out a dungeon by himself, it will take time. In some cases, you will die trying.

Shades can Poison you, that will lower your chances if you fight shades.

Assassins are deadly if they get a critical strike in on you.

Getting surrounded can limit your chances, possibly not allowing you to get a hit in at all.


Against other players, your Lords will not be in every army.


Really, it's not so much that the game is any easier, just the AI was never really smart to begin with. My ability to edit the AI would be limited and it's not something I've yet tried to alter too much.

Having an army is better than having no army at all.

[swiftfoxmark2]

Apr 2, 2010 11:06:44 GMT -6 skrag said:

Cheap tactic / strategy / whatever:

Using ships to pick off troops hanging around the coast - i've destroyed large groups of marauders with a ship's powerful long-ranged weapons without taking any damage, and would have killed an enemy lord (I retreated and let him live, it was just too cheap a tactic) ;D

… would it be possible to encourage the AI to build more ships? I have only ever seen ONE AI-controlled ship, in perhaps fifty games of LOMSE

I have, but it's usually when you approach a capital with a ship or water unit. And then only when they are hostile to you.

But yeah, it would be nice if we could somehow improve the AI to use ships more often and behave more like a player.

On a side note, the map I made (impz.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=LOM&action=display&thread=1540) has a lot of water, but was designed for single player. The idea was that because the AI doesn't really engage you like a player would, I jammed it full of various encounters so that you can spend a lot of time either exploring or fighting other faiths. The default Urak map just doesn't seem to cut it for me.

[Boaster]

Apr 9, 2010 7:42:18 GMT -6 swiftfoxmark2 said:

Apr 2, 2010 11:06:44 GMT -6 skrag said:

Cheap tactic / strategy / whatever:

Using ships to pick off troops hanging around the coast - i've destroyed large groups of marauders with a ship's powerful long-ranged weapons without taking any damage, and would have killed an enemy lord (I retreated and let him live, it was just too cheap a tactic) ;D

… would it be possible to encourage the AI to build more ships? I have only ever seen ONE AI-controlled ship, in perhaps fifty games of LOMSE

I have, but it's usually when you approach a capital with a ship or water unit. And then only when they are hostile to you.

But yeah, it would be nice if we could somehow improve the AI to use ships more often and behave more like a player.

On a side note, the map I made (impz.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=LOM&action=display&thread=1540) has a lot of water, but was designed for single player. The idea was that because the AI doesn't really engage you like a player would, I jammed it full of various encounters so that you can spend a lot of time either exploring or fighting other faiths. The default Urak map just doesn't seem to cut it for me.

Which by the way is named Permeon and is a fine looking map.

[a dude yo]

just came back to say that yeah, the warrior strategy is much more reliant on the lord editor than i thought it was. those
+5 armor artifacts make the game ridiculously easy. if you dont use the lord editor there is nothing broken about earth warriors.

on a related note, perhaps the +5 armor artifacts are undercosted in the lord editor.

[swiftfoxmark2]

Apr 9, 2010 9:40:22 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Apr 9, 2010 7:42:18 GMT -6 swiftfoxmark2 said:

I have, but it's usually when you approach a capital with a ship or water unit. And then only when they are hostile to you.

But yeah, it would be nice if we could somehow improve the AI to use ships more often and behave more like a player.

On a side note, the map I made (impz.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=LOM&action=display&thread=1540) has a lot of water, but was designed for single player. The idea was that because the AI doesn't really engage you like a player would, I jammed it full of various encounters so that you can spend a lot of time either exploring or fighting other faiths. The default Urak map just doesn't seem to cut it for me.

Which by the way is named Permeon and is a fine looking map.

Thanks, I may write up a guide someday as to how to create a map based on my past experiences.

Gameplay experience is key too here and I think a well designed map can get around some of these cheap tactics.

[Boaster]

Apr 10, 2010 7:35:33 GMT -6 @a dude yo said:

just came back to say that yeah, the warrior strategy is much more reliant on the lord editor than i thought it was. those
+5 armor artifacts make the game ridiculously easy. if you dont use the lord editor there is nothing broken about earth warriors.

on a related note, perhaps the +5 armor artifacts are undercosted in the lord editor.

A mage of comparable level in the right hands will derail any warrior.

[balkoth103]

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but in the original LOMSE (I can't figure out how to download GS5, it may just be my computer that's messed up, then again, i can't figure out how to download regular LOMSE, like to play without the CD so its probably me, idk, but that's a different story) I was able to buy as many of the spiders (Water's Legendary Creature) as my money would allow me to buy. The only catch is you have to buy them all at once. One game I bought so many that I had 3 full armies of them just crawling around Urak reeking havoc.
I also agree with everyone else about the lack of AI ships. I have always felt that water was practicaly a useless faith. They're power is their control over water. Since no one uses water, this power is essentially negated.
Even if there were some more island castles and/or more water marauder's it would make them seem like they have a purpose... (No offense to anyone who likes water... )

[balkoth103]

I would also like to say that I do not find it unfair that an Air theif can fly over terrain that other's cant walk on. Air's power rests in the air, so it seems natural that they would be able to navigate in areas like this.
Oh, i have another issue with LOMSE (that may or may not be true with GS5). In LOMSE theives could only ever steal 1 of each resource at a time... or at least whenever i used them. If there is a way to fix that, without making it like in the original LOM where it was ridiculously easy, that'd be better

[Boaster]

May 12, 2010 0:40:12 GMT -6 balkoth103 said:

I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this, but in the original LOMSE (I can't figure out how to download GS5, it may just be my computer that's messed up, then again, i can't figure out how to download regular LOMSE, like to play without the CD so its probably me, idk, but that's a different story) I was able to buy as many of the spiders (Water's Legendary Creature) as my money would allow me to buy. The only catch is you have to buy them all at once. One game I bought so many that I had 3 full armies of them just crawling around Urak reeking havoc.
I also agree with everyone else about the lack of AI ships. I have always felt that water was practicaly a useless faith. They're power is their control over water. Since no one uses water, this power is essentially negated.
Even if there were some more island castles and/or more water marauder's it would make them seem like they have a purpose... (No offense to anyone who likes water... )

In version 300 (All my mods have used the best of both 300 and 301 versions of the game), the Spiders were limited to being summoned in one instance. But after summoning spiders, that was it.

However, in updates in the recent two months, I have limited the number of Giant Arachnids in play, between all players except Marauders. No more than six Giant Arachnids can exist on the map at one time.


The AI really wasn't programmed to work with ships, except when surrounded by islands. Also the AI takes cues from the Human players, where if they create Ships, they will create ships themselves.









I'm kind of surprised that no one mentioned abusing auto-calc. Sending your mage into combat, spamming big ticket spells and doing major damage, then try to pick of the remainders with the accompanying army. If your mage is being chased and almost killed, auto-calc will essentially "restart the battle" and calculate the victor with all that remains.

[tchahin]

- Suicider bomb Fire mage Inferno Terrorist Squad

- Chaos vortex spam

- Fly over unreachable region while playing as balkoth, and attack from there

- Water drowning item

- Air thunderclap item

[thomas420]

Chaos vortex spam is my fave cheap tactic.

[balkoth103]

yes i knew you were only allowed to buy them at one time, but i wasn't sure if they accidently let you buy more than 1 at that time... i guess not tho. thanks.

[thomas420]

Trade a few buildings to some other faith. Allow marauders to come in and take them from them. Then take them from the marauders and keep them or continue to trade them back to the other factions for their rep and let the marauders take them again and trade them off over and over until you have the rep you want with the other factions. It is a pretty cheap way to get the rep you want with the ceartain factions.