malfunctioning spells

[cugel]

My first post. I bought LOMSE v3.00 on CD in a store recently. Playing unmodded to get to know the original first. Still a noob after maybe 3 or 4 games/wins.

I have run into problems with those spells:

1. Spawn Cave (exact name?) seems to work only on some empty "conquered") caves. When I step on them afterwards, they declare as Level 1 caves, although the monsters far exceed L1 (they probably match the caster's level as per spell description). Why doesn't the spell work on the vast majority of caves?

2. All terrain walk spells fail, even those which add a graphical indicator to the appearance of the party on the overland map, thus giving me evidence the spell was really cast. It still takes the parties exactly as long as before to get to their destination. There's not a single green dot more. I have tried the respective spells from air, fire, death ("funeral march"), and - I think - also life and water if they have them. All have failed.

Anybody know what's going on, and if there's a fix?

Thanks. (and I'm glad there are still some gamers out for games like this)

[Boaster]

Spawn Cave only works on single level caves. It is limited to certain terrain sprite types. Typically you'll find that most Caves in the Death region, if they're not multi-leveled, will work.

As far as Spawn Cave working and then "lying" about the level of the encounter, as it should be set to the Level of your caster: this results as a limitation within the game, that or the makers weren't able to get to making a fix.


The Terrain Movement spells are best used when your party has not yet moved. Once you cast the spell, it will remain until dispelled or until the beginning of your next turn. At which point your current movement points is actually 1 higher than your maximum movement points: this is due to a permanent modifier being used on your maximum movement points until your next turn. The spell can only be used on units who do not already have the spell buff applied to them.

Since the movement spells increase your current movement by a percentage, the higher your current movement is, the more movement points you can potentially receive.

The game has some quirks and a learning curve. One thing that you should know is that mages do have more than 2 spells (!!!). You just have to right-click on the spell icon to get a list of the other spells. It's a common oversight of many new players, so I thought I would mention that, just in case.

[cugel]

Thanks for the quick response. :-)

1.) Hmm... I suppose that with single level cave you mean caves which do not have a downstairs extra level, for the one and only cave in my Death territory which can be repopulated is not the only cave which originally was level one... I better go check if the other L1 cave is a two-level. Is the spell supposed to also work on other types of dungeons besides "caves" (e.g. hovels)?

2.) I finally got a faster overland walking spell to work now... although only once. The unit had only stepped out of the building it was in, and I could boost its movement for the day. On a later turn, when it didn't have to come out of a building, the spell failed to give more movement even though I cast before the unit moved. Is this what you meant with a permanent effect and a buff already having been applied (permanently?), as in a unit can have its overland movement speed boosted only once per game?

3.) I figured out the hidden (must be loaded into one of the spell slots) spells quirk some time ago. Thanks for mentioning it, though. Something I am still struggling with is knowing when my mines and buildings are about to be taken over, unless I post a unit in every single one (expensive) or scrutinize the entire map with a magnifying glass every turn (tedious and not always successful). Often I only find out I'm under attack when a message appears that a building has just been destroyed (sometimes not even saying what kind of building, *sigh*). This lack of warnings and specific building references seems to be a major design flaw of the game (like perhaps also the fact that things like mage towers and guilds are located all exposed outside city walls).

4.) Can overland movement and faster heal when resting spells be applied on units which are of a faith different from the spell caster, by the way? (I have often wondered if that was the reason for failures)

5.) [By the way], is there somewhere a list of all spells and units with their descriptions and numeric stats? The manual is rather vague.


Thanks again for the help, and I hope I am not taking liberties asking so many questions. :-)

[Boaster]

Movement spells are used once per turn, or until dispelled.

Just experiment with the re-infest cave spell.

Movement spells and overland healing spells can work on any units, unmodded. However, I don't think HEAL with work on Death creatures. In the mod, movement spells can work only on your own units and overland healing spells will not effect units of the opposite faith to the spell.

Unmodded, the unit stat window is vague. In the mod, it's very descriptive.

[cugel]

Thanks again.

1.) I've found more caves I can respawn.

2.) It is still an extremely rare event that I can make an overland movement spell work, even if I cast them before the unit starts moving in a turn. (I think I have had no more than two successes)

3.) Fire's heal faster when resting spell definitely did not help skeletons or shades (which apparently don't heal by themselves) heal.

4.) My question about stats was not about stats windows but if there is a comprehensive list of stats for spells and units to look them up before you get your hands on them. (better to know what spell to research or building to upgrade) -- I think I'll try to DL and install your mod, soon, though. It sounds like a major improvement. Perhaps even underpowered faiths, like chaos with its hilarious unit vocals, can be played without undue difficulty then. So far, unmodded, I've found Air, Fire, and possibly Death to totally overpower the others.

[skrag]

Death's raise skeleton/zombie spells didn't always work for me, even with free slots in your army for the newly created troops. I assume it depends on the type of dead body you cast it on? Though I seem to remember raising a skeleton warrior from a seagull once.

[Boaster]

Mar 3, 2010 6:59:18 GMT -6 skrag said:

Death's raise skeleton/zombie spells didn't always work for me, even with free slots in your army for the newly created troops. I assume it depends on the type of dead body you cast it on? Though I seem to remember raising a skeleton warrior from a seagull once.

Raise Skeleton will not work on Undead corpses, or units who already have been used by Raise Skeleton, Zombie or Shade.

The spell "Walk Among Us" in the unmodded game will only work during combat, not after it asks if you want to cast a spell.

[cugel]

Nice to see others joining the discussion. :-)

I just discovered that when I cast that overland movement spell (Death's version of it for now) on a building that houses an army, it always works. It's just armies in the field I can almost never affect. Weird (and annoying, considering I have to research them whether I can use them or not). Am I the only one having difficulty with overland movement spells?

[Boaster]

Mar 3, 2010 22:21:03 GMT -6 cugel said:

Nice to see others joining the discussion. :-)

I just discovered that when I cast that overland movement spell (Death's version of it for now) on a building that houses an army, it always works. It's just armies in the field I can almost never affect. Weird (and annoying, considering I have to research them whether I can use them or not). Am I the only one having difficulty with overland movement spells?

I believe so.

[skrag]

I've never had problems with any of the overland movement spells

If i'm right, with Mantera's mod when you use such a spell, that army has reduced movement next turn? Maybe its that.

[Boaster]

Mar 4, 2010 12:56:55 GMT -6 skrag said:

I've never had problems with any of the overland movement spells

If i'm right, with Mantera's mod when you use such a spell, that army has reduced movement next turn? Maybe its that.

In the mod, maximum movement is cut in half after the spell is cast. When the next turn roles around, movement points are replenished immediately. However, movement points get refilled before spell buffs expire, thus the next turn units only get half their normal movement points.

[quentinak]

If I may chime in... I am interested in your take of LOMSE with Mantera's latest mods onces you're done with playing the original, to see what aspects you like better.

[cugel]

Mar 4, 2010 16:12:55 GMT -6 quentinak said:

If I may chime in... I am interested in your take of LOMSE with Mantera's latest mods onces you're done with playing the original, to see what aspects you like better.

What I have read about the mod makes me think I will probably like it better, although the next term penalty for overland movement boost spells would probably make me dislike them more, especially if they continue to work only occasionally.

I wonder if any of the faiths I haven't played yet are worth trying unmodded: Life, Order, Earth. Reading about them and playing against them made me doubt their prowess. I found Air to dominate by fast expansion over the map with oft-invincible flying shooters and Fire because of dragon scale armor. I typically won (offing Balkoth or even dominating the entire map) before I could even research the mid to high level spells. Both Air and Fire have strong summoned flying units to mop up after the first neighborly Temple liberations. Death has some nice perks but seems to take longer to develop to supremacy, and it's strange that Death's game plan is so much alike to that of the other faiths: making friends with other faiths by liberating their temples (From whom? Aren't the marauders in business because of Death?). Playing Death, I tried to resist this temptation and go for turtle followed by conquest, but income is just too restricted when you don't gain vassals.

[Boaster]

The next turn penalty just forces the player to find a good time to use the spell.

I do plan on modifying the Overland movement spells again. Last time I made it so these spells would allow parties the absolute best movement over the faith's native terrain. That part was removed to make way for the Potion of Movement, which grants a bonus to current and maximum movement. Like the overland spells, the next turn replenishes movement immediately then spell buffs get cleaned up. So the maximum movement granted by the Potion of Movement will be a bonus to the player for the next turn.

Best time to use movement spells in the mod:
1. Before moving, to maximize the spell's percent bonus to current movement points.
2. When you need to get to a destination in one turn, instead of two.
3. Before traveling an army to the special building. Since the game will recognize your current movement is greater than or equal to your current movement you will be able to use the Special Building's effect that turn.
4. When you have at least half of your maximum movement, you can use your Movement spell and then a health recovery spell to get yourself an immediate inside/outside health recovery bonus instead of the moved health recovery.


The way the Movement spells are in the mod, it gives them more strategic uses than simply getting a movement bonus.

The issue you are having with Movement spells in the unmodded game doesn't sound right.

[cugel]

Mar 5, 2010 19:59:14 GMT -6 Boaster said:

The issue you are having with Movement spells in the unmodded game doesn't sound right.

Is there perhaps a certain proximity at which they must be cast? So far, Death's movement spell works when I cast it on the library out of which my caster has just stepped. Units still in the lib get boosted reliably. However, on all other armies it fails. (I think it may have worked once or twice on others, but by now I am not even sure about that anymore)

Is there a patch for the 3.00 version, and everybody else is perhaps playing with that patch?

[Boaster]

Yes. All spells, except for the Terraforming spells have a proximity in which they need to be cast.

You cannot cast within buildings.

I think you'll be ok casting within 5 tiles.

[cugel]

Mar 8, 2010 12:27:30 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Yes. All spells, except for the Terraforming spells have a proximity in which they need to be cast.

You cannot cast within buildings.

I think you'll be ok casting within 5 tiles.

Aha! Perhaps that solves the mystery. Thanks! How big is a tile?

[Boaster]

Mar 8, 2010 21:54:40 GMT -6 cugel said:

Mar 8, 2010 12:27:30 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Yes. All spells, except for the Terraforming spells have a proximity in which they need to be cast.

You cannot cast within buildings.

I think you'll be ok casting within 5 tiles.

Aha! Perhaps that solves the mystery. Thanks! How big is a tile?

On the overland map, a single army occupies a tile. This is the case unless the army is split, but hasn't moved away yet. So that should help you.

[cugel]

Mar 9, 2010 10:11:28 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Mar 8, 2010 21:54:40 GMT -6 cugel said:

Aha! Perhaps that solves the mystery. Thanks! How big is a tile?

On the overland map, a single army occupies a tile. This is the case unless the army is split, but hasn't moved away yet. So that should help you.

It does. Basically within visible range of the caster. :-)

[szopen]

I'm sometimes having same problem... or rather was having.
I noticed, that the spell always worked if I cast it on army, that included... the caster itself
But, in some cases, I menaged to haste my single troops beeing far away ( I'm sure of that, my spy was leading a prisoner to slaughter and he wouldn't made it in one turn. After spell, he does).

When it comes to "Spawn Cave", it also pisses me off. When I fight the cave lv.10 and get only resources for a lv.1 it hurts
And no artifacts! What I fight caves for are artifacts, not XP!