Mantera, you are the man (or woman?)

[gws]

Just discovered your website and mod for this game that I played as a kid and am just getting back into.  Really unbelievable all the work you have done and glad to hear there's still some kind of community playing it.

Had a blast playing hard/insane mode, and looking forward to seeing what other changes you decide to make.  

Any of the custom maps you would recommend?  Also, are you able to mod and create custom "legends of urak"? 

[gws]

Probably posting this in the wrong place, but also wanted to share my experience so far and some thoughts/questions.


I love the balance compared to the original so that champions are generally stronger and can actually do more (especially thieves).


Have done a few hard/insane playthroughs, Chaos Thief lord with chakram of entropy, Chaos mage lord with early reincarnation, and now doing Death Thief lord with assassin's blade.  I notice with the stat boosts you have to really cheese the other faiths to win or win early otherwise it's really tough.  Was really enjoyable and I crapped my pants when I saw mages with 60 mana.  Also love how you put the legendary creatures in lvl 11 dungeons; really made for a tough fight.  Maybe stat boosting could be toned down a bit but I guess it's hard/insane mode so should be really challenging right?

Maybe I missed something, but trading with other faiths had to be extremely one-sided or their view of me would go down.  I had one faith in good standing and I had to pay like 600 gold plus a similar-leveled champion for a champion once and it was a normal-favored trade.  Is there some sort of handicap in the harder modes that stops you from trading fair?

What's your reasoning for putting charges on scrolls for mages?  As in they don't use mana and are limited like other champions?

Also, how do you play as marauder?  Or can you hire marauder units (not mercs) as Chaos?

I noticed in the help in hard mode it says you get lord-level champions for liberating temple.  Has not happened for me, did I miss something?

Because subduing is linked with strength now, it's super tough to subdue warriors and even worse torturing/interrogating because dex is always the thief's highest stat.  What's the strategy supposed to be for that?  Are you supposed to have strength-boosting artifacts to be able to subdue warriors?

It would be nice if you could add those faith scroll spells to your spellbook permanently, like the sabre spells for example.

Are there any multiplayer servers for this?  Using a virtual LAN app or something to connect everyone?

[Boaster]

Game Ranger and Kali are the two multiplayer options.

Spell Scrolls were changed to charges from Wizard mana, and this way any champion could use spell scrolls. Rather than spells scrolls being a wizard only thing, thieves and warriors can use those scrolls basically as any other artifact. Also, different scrolls based on their mana will have different conditions for how many max charges the spell scroll has and how frequently those charges will refresh by.

Insane mode is where the AI faith units have increases in stats. The amount of stats these AI control player units receive increases with turns (days) passed. On Hard mode, the stat increases are the most significant. One can play Easy and Insane, and there will still be stat increases that happen during the game.

Lord Class champions as Great Temple rescues have a Great Temple Level of placement requirement. "Avaeron IV-128.scn" is the last map I modified thats included with the GS5R3 download, in the maps folder of the RAR archive. Fourth version, and the 128 is the H+W of the map (128 tiles by 128 tiles), which is standard map size.

Also, if you start a game already with your Lord plus two Lord Class units (heirs) then you will not get two additional heirs from your Great Temple as rescues. I specifically denied that by putting in the effort to detect for it. Don't want the game to get too saturated with Lord class units on Hard difficulty in particular.

Subduing is greatly impacted by Strength of the Thief and the target. Having less Strength doesn't mean it's impossible, just NOT as easy as you may be used with the original game. Always thought it was BIG CHEESE when players could knock out a high level dwarf warrior with a much weaker thief. Subdue makes strength count for something, which is what most warriors have. It's just a lot less effective versus them. Drop two strength potions on the Thief to get big strength bonuses if you wish to maximize subdue chances.

Barter, believe it or not, was initially designed quite cleverly. The reason why you're having to throw in so much extra gold could be on one of a variety of factors: your faith and their faith, how much of a resource they already have that you're offering (600 gold could be low if they have 6000). Faiths like Order and Fire will never have close to being even trades. In a manner of speaking, they're naturally at odds with each other: this would be a lay man's interpretation of the numbers scripted into the game.

Some faiths have such good inherent likings to each other (i.e. Air and Life, for example) is where you're much more likely to get a favorable trade for less, without large negative impacts on political relationships.

Interrogation is useful versus Warriors or Thieves, as it is more dependent on Wisdom for success. Torture is useful versus some Thieves and Wizards, because it is more dependent on Strength for success.

Some spell scrolls can be added to spell knowledge for a player. A wizard of matching faith must have it placed into hand. However, not all spell scrolls can be consumed for refreshed mana, experience bonus and spell knowledge. If every spell were added to the book, it might be nice for some, but then if only certain artifacts and scrolls can cast some spells then it makes those items more valuable.

Marauders can be "trained" from city buildings if your Lord is the Orc Warlord or Witch Lord. Marauder type units can also be summoned or "hired (only as mercs)" from buildings erected at Villages and may require a Level 2 building at least.

Glad you're enjoying things!

[lemminkainen]

Yep, one thing to do when you're bored is to try to get every possible village on the map and see what marauders Boaster made trainable in each. Thanks for your feedback on the mod.

[gws]

How do you play as orc/witch lord? So if I understand correctly, you can train marauder mercs from villages and train non-mercs only if you have marauder lord in chaos faith?

Have you had any luck modding to create new legends of urak quests?

Seems most of the infantry have similar stats. What was your reasoning in giving them all such low defense, especially earth infantry since they were the strongest in original patch?

[eyesodilated]

Aug 6, 2022 18:38:36 GMT -6 gws said:

"…

Have you had any luck modding to create new legends of urak quests?

…"

From what I understand the forum user, Orzie, is the closest to creating a new legends of Urak quest. It is the much anticipated Life quest. He is very busy but pops in here from time to time with updates. He had mentioned that he would include some kind of tutorial that would provide information on how he did it all but only once he releases the Life quest. The screenshots look awesome! I would love to see it one day completed. I have dabbled with trying to make a quest myself but I cannot figure out how to get the lord to show up on the Legends of Urak screen. If you are interested in making a quest perhaps we can start a new thread documenting the challenges, problems and solutions to this I am down. Maybe in the modding section, it is something that has fascinated me for a while.

[Boaster]

Aug 6, 2022 18:38:36 GMT -6 gws said:

How do you play as orc/witch lord? So if I understand correctly, you can train marauder mercs from villages and train non-mercs only if you have marauder lord in chaos faith?

Have you had any luck modding to create new legends of urak quests?

Seems most of the infantry have similar stats. What was your reasoning in giving them all such low defense, especially earth infantry since they were the strongest in original patch?

DIVERSITY! Right?

In a manner of speaking yes.

Infantry may appear to have low armor. This means they're maybe easier to hit. However, they have a natural 33% melee resistance. So, when fighting in melee (which is what infantry do), they take less damage from physical melee hits. However, their vulnerability is in their low armor and being struck at range.

Infantry, good in melee, not good at a distance. Infantry definitely have higher attack on average when compared to cavalry. So, if you cannot down Infantry with ranged attacks fast enough, you may be in for a pounding.


Cavalry may appear to have high armor, but generally have no physical melee resistance, so they're taking full damage from melee. Also, their attack and hit recoveries are not nearly as good compared to infantry: good mobility, not so good stability. Cavalry are generally more mobile (faster moving, longer moving), don't have nearly the same attack strength as Infantry, do generally have higher armor than infantry, no physical melee resistance, but do generally have 33% physical missile resistance. So, Cavalry's strength is not directly in their ability to overpower enemies, but their mobility and resistance to missile attacks makes them better against, you guessed it: Ranged attackers.

So, you have your rock, paper, scissors style of balancing in this regard.

Infantry: High attack, low armor, high damage potential, resists physical melee damage, vulnerable to missile attacks.

Cavalry: Moderate attack, moderate armor, resists physical missile damage, fast mobility, poor stability, good travel distances.

Missiles: Attack at a distance, high damage potential, weak in melee.

[Skarn]

How long has it been since Orzie gave any news regarding his work? I was really hyped back then it was announced and I believe it took him a long time to get things going but I haven't seen anything in quite some time.

[gws]

Hey again --- just had a really fun earth playthrough spamming triple tremors via two mages and legendary earth axe in combat.  Balkoth is really a force to be reckoned with; still trying to figure out what his shield does even after "translating" the description.

Brought this up before but didn't receive a straight answer; how do you play as marauder faction or balkoth?  In the regular version, you just pick death mage but doesn't work in the mod.

Something small, but I kept having a bug when equipping my Cloak of the Lich on earth mage.  It didn't change any stats but instead just kept increasing my mana to go as high as I wanted basically.  On other faith mages it worked fine.

Also I noticed you can attack -> subdue a champion and the amount that your diplomacy level will go up is higher then what you lost attacking him.  Basically, you can spam subdue - release to get max diplomacy for free.

There seems to be some bugs when casting two big spells at same time; eg. two chain lightnings, and only one will cast.  Might be game limitation because I think I noticed that in original game too.

[Skarn]

Aug 13, 2022 21:52:20 GMT -6 gws said:

Hey again --- just had a really fun earth playthrough spamming triple tremors via two mages and legendary earth axe in combat.  Balkoth is really a force to be reckoned with; still trying to figure out what his shield does even after "translating" the description.

Brought this up before but didn't receive a straight answer; how do you play as marauder faction or balkoth?  In the regular version, you just pick death mage but doesn't work in the mod.

Something small, but I kept having a bug when equipping my Cloak of the Lich on earth mage.  It didn't change any stats but instead just kept increasing my mana to go as high as I wanted basically.  On other faith mages it worked fine.

Also I noticed you can attack -> subdue a champion and the amount that your diplomacy level will go up is higher then what you lost attacking him.  Basically, you can spam subdue - release to get max diplomacy for free.

There seems to be some bugs when casting two big spells at same time; eg. two chain lightnings, and only one will cast.  Might be game limitation because I think I noticed that in original game too.

You have to name your leaders a certain way right before getting in-game, for example type in "Balkoth" selecting the warlock in order to get the Arch Demon. I don't remember what name exactly goes for the Orc Warlord but you have to select the Conqueror. You might wanna check out the faq here somewhere on the forum, there's a direct link for it on mantera's website. Give it a shot.

I'm not experiencing the cloak of lich bug you talked about but I'm on a slightly older version. I know the latest versions had an item rework so that might be why.

[Boaster]

Aug 13, 2022 21:52:20 GMT -6 gws said:

Hey again --- just had a really fun earth playthrough spamming triple tremors via two mages and legendary earth axe in combat.  Balkoth is really a force to be reckoned with; still trying to figure out what his shield does even after "translating" the description.

Brought this up before but didn't receive a straight answer; how do you play as marauder faction or balkoth?  In the regular version, you just pick death mage but doesn't work in the mod.

Something small, but I kept having a bug when equipping my Cloak of the Lich on earth mage.  It didn't change any stats but instead just kept increasing my mana to go as high as I wanted basically.  On other faith mages it worked fine.

Also I noticed you can attack -> subdue a champion and the amount that your diplomacy level will go up is higher then what you lost attacking him.  Basically, you can spam subdue - release to get max diplomacy for free.

There seems to be some bugs when casting two big spells at same time; eg. two chain lightnings, and only one will cast.  Might be game limitation because I think I noticed that in original game too.

Lightning spells are rather glitchy. When a Gnome tries to cast lightning, the bolts are invisible. Go ahead and try it.


Select Warlock, type name Balkoth: become Balkoth.

Select Warlock, type special name: become Dread Lich.

Select Conqueror, type special name: become Orc Warlord.

Select Shaman Queen, type special name: become Witch Lord.

Select Amazon Matron, type special name: become Valkyrie Lord.

Select Crusader, type special name: become Yeoman Lord, Cavalier Lord, or Sacred Knight.

[gws]

Weird, the Crusader custom Lords didn't work for me, but the others did with those renames.

I've noticed that you can learn a spell if you have an artifact with that spell.  Do you have to use it x times or be a certain level to learn it?  It seems like when my warlock hit lvl 8 he finally learned Leeches from the artifact, whereas when I equip Ashes of Infestation he doesn't learn Spawn Cave.  And then my earth warrior lord learned Tremor right away after using the ultimate axe.

[Skarn]

Aug 14, 2022 15:43:19 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Aug 13, 2022 21:52:20 GMT -6 gws said:

Hey again --- just had a really fun earth playthrough spamming triple tremors via two mages and legendary earth axe in combat.  Balkoth is really a force to be reckoned with; still trying to figure out what his shield does even after "translating" the description.

Brought this up before but didn't receive a straight answer; how do you play as marauder faction or balkoth?  In the regular version, you just pick death mage but doesn't work in the mod.

Something small, but I kept having a bug when equipping my Cloak of the Lich on earth mage.  It didn't change any stats but instead just kept increasing my mana to go as high as I wanted basically.  On other faith mages it worked fine.

Also I noticed you can attack -> subdue a champion and the amount that your diplomacy level will go up is higher then what you lost attacking him.  Basically, you can spam subdue - release to get max diplomacy for free.

There seems to be some bugs when casting two big spells at same time; eg. two chain lightnings, and only one will cast.  Might be game limitation because I think I noticed that in original game too.

Lightning spells are rather glitchy. When a Gnome tries to cast lightning, the bolts are invisible. Go ahead and try it.


Select Warlock, type name Balkoth: become Balkoth.

Select Warlock, type special name: become Dread Lich.

Select Conqueror, type special name: become Orc Warlord.

Select Shaman Queen, type special name: become Witch Lord.

Select Amazon Matron, type special name: become Valkyrie Lord.

Select Crusader, type special name: become Yeoman Lord, Cavalier Lord, or Sacred Knight.

It seems to be "Siegfried" for the Yeoman Lord, and "Sir Lancelot" for the Sacred Knight. There are no mentions of a possibility to have the Cavalier Lord or Kreuzritter right away in my scenario.gs5 file

[gws]

How does hit recovery work (healing)?  I have a fire warlord with 6/12/6 but when I rest and don't move he gains 18 HP.  Outside no movement he gains 12 and if he moves at all he gains 6.  Basically, last two numbers seem correct but the 6 for inside seems to be giving more HP.

[lemminkainen]

It's a baseline of 6 and then you simply add a bonus. It's either 6 alone, or 6 + 6, or 6 + 12, hence what you observed.

[gws]

Can you explain how the hp recovery works again?  You said it was baseline six + whatever for inside (resting inside) / outside (resting outside) / moved (you moved that turn?)?  So if I have 4/3/2 and I end turn inside building I should get 6+4?  What if I don't move that turn and end turn inside building, what's the bonus for that?  Do you add inside + moved bonus if you have moved and end turn inside?  Is the baseline value same for every unit including champions/lords?  

[Boaster]

Oct 1, 2022 22:46:16 GMT -6 gws said:

Can you explain how the hp recovery works again?  You said it was baseline six + whatever for inside (resting inside) / outside (resting outside) / moved (you moved that turn?)?  So if I have 4/3/2 and I end turn inside building I should get 6+4?  What if I don't move that turn and end turn inside building, what's the bonus for that?  Do you add inside + moved bonus if you have moved and end turn inside?  Is the baseline value same for every unit including champions/lords?  

Moved Health recovery is totally on its own. (Current movement is less than maximum movement)

Outside and Inside Health recoveries are unmoved. (Current movement is greater than or equal to maximum movement)

Outside recovery is what you get, unmoved, not inside a sprite.

Inside Health recovery is what you get IN ADDITION TO not moving while stationed in a sprite.

[gws]

Ok, I think I get it.  So I have goblins with 2/2/4.

If I end turn without moving inside a building, they get 6 PLUS 2

If I end turn without moving outside a building, they get 2 flat

If I move at all in any form, and end turn, whether I am in or out of a building, they get 4 flat

Important takeaway: If I move, it doesn't make a difference whether I end turn inside or outside a building, because it just uses moved hp recovery flat at that point?

[gws]

I'm still confused.  Just did some more tests with my goblins (2/2/4) and wolfriders (4/4/8)

Looks like I understand the moved aspect; if they move at all, whether they rest in building or not, heal is moved value flat.

When I rest in building without moving, goblins get 4 (2 + 2?) and wolfriders get 8 (4 + 4?).  When I rest outside without moving, they get the outside value flat.

So I think what I am missing is what's the bonus to inside resting if you don't move that turn?

[Boaster]

Oct 2, 2022 7:48:35 GMT -6 Boaster said:

Moved Health recovery is totally on its own. (Current movement is less than maximum movement)

Outside and Inside Health recoveries are unmoved. (Current movement is greater than or equal to maximum movement)

Outside recovery is what you get, unmoved, not inside a sprite.

Inside Health recovery is what you get IN ADDITION TO not moving while stationed in a sprite.

(Inside) / (Outside) / (Moved)