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Post by Boaster on Feb 7, 2005 10:15:45 GMT -6
Hey, does anyone out there have any suggestions on spells, units, or artifacts that they would like to share? What you'd like to see may be possible. I can surely arrange a standalone GS file with the changes you desire, so long as the list of things you desire is not overwhelming.
This thread is to voice your ideas, so lets have at it! If your suggestion is good enough it could make its way into one of my mods.
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Post by lAncien on Apr 21, 2005 12:53:45 GMT -6
I want to write the background story for Pacify, Summon Demon, and Walk the Paths, for as many as you implement.
Pacify:
When he heard her soothing voice, the anger and fear drained from the Elven warrior's face. Although still surrounded by a tribe of orcs, he relaxed and seemed unconcerned. He stopped attacking and closed his eyes as if sleeping, but still his staff flashed around him, accurately turning away each spear-thrust. One of the orcs noticed the enchantress, and turned to strike her down. I rushed to intervene, but before I could, she had spoken soothingly to him, and the cruel glint had left his eyes. Whether from habit or shame, he continued to menace her with his spear, but seemed to lack the will to kill, for not one of his thrusts went home, although she didn't move. She turned her back to him, and asked me if I now believed when she told me, "A soft word can turn away wrath."
On Life, from The Wanderings of l'Ancien
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Post by lAncien on Apr 21, 2005 13:15:33 GMT -6
Detect Cave doesn't cost nearly enough. It only costs 1 mana point? With that, you can pinpoint everything in the map in a turn or two.
I don't think there's enough difference in movement between the units. I think it was good to standardize and make sure they were consistent (and no one was too slow), but I think there should be more definition between the races.
Dwarves should be 2 points slower than other comparable infantry. Giants should be 2 points faster than other comparable infantry. Both types are always on foot. Rock hurlers are the only giant troops.
Elves (both light and dark) should be 2 points faster than your standard rates, including when mounted (they're lighter, and horses can move faster too). Raiders and holy knights should be one point faster, perhaps, than heavy calvary or knights.
Dark Halbardiers and Giants should have a melee range of two, because of the polearm or reach.
I think it would be interesting if elementals (and similar creatures) had 5% chance of casting an appropriate spell when attacked.
Water Elemental = Rust (when attacking)
Air Elemental = Headwind
Fire Elemental = Scald
Golem = Slow (maybe)
Gargoyle = reduces melee attack (damage weapons)
Ogre = Confusion (when attacking)
Shade = Poison 2% or Golgoth's Gift 2%, or Decay 1%
Unicorn = Regeneration (on self)
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Post by Boaster on Apr 21, 2005 15:32:22 GMT -6
Detect Cave doesn't cost nearly enough. It only costs 1 mana point? With that, you can pinpoint everything in the map in a turn or two. I don't think there's enough difference in movement between the units. I think it was good to standardize and make sure they were consistent (and no one was too slow), but I think there should be more definition between the races. Dwarves should be 2 points slower than other comparable infantry. Giants should be 2 points faster than other comparable infantry. Both types are always on foot. Rock hurlers are the only giant troops. Elves (both light and dark) should be 2 points faster than your standard rates, including when mounted (they're lighter, and horses can move faster too). Raiders and holy knights should be one point faster, perhaps, than heavy calvary or knights. I think it would be interesting if elementals (and similar creatures) had 5% chance of casting an appropriate spell when attacked. Water Elemental = Rust (when attacking) Air Elemental = Headwind Fire Elemental = Scald Golem = Slow (maybe) Gargoyle = reduces melee attack (damage weapons) Ogre = Confusion (when attacking) Shade = Poison 2% or Golgoth's Gift 2%, or Decay 1% Unicorn = Regeneration (on self) Detect Cave is fine as I see it. As far as "2 points faster" in combat, Dwarves are slowest in combat, and Elves/Faeries are fastest. All Life units do have 2 overland movement points greater than other races. Some of the Death units, such as the Necromancer and Halberdier have 2 more points than normal. The reason Life have the 2 extra overland movement is to make up for lower combat stats. Life is the swift race. One might think Air is, but Air is a mix of speed and power (Giants and Faeries). The differences in combat speed are enough. There is no need to tone down the overland movements of other faiths. Dwarves are slowest in combat, and Elves/Faeries are the fastest (Elves are a bit stronger than Faeries though). I wish I could do this. I sooo wish I could. These ideas may be possible. My ideas, if I am able to implement them. Water Elemental = 25% Minor Rust Air Elemental = 5% Stun Fire Elemental = 10% Scald Golem = 75% Crush Gargoyle = 50% Crush Ogre = 10% Blind Rage Shade = 5% Poison Dryad = 5% Pacify Regeneration on attack (and on self) probably would not work. If I were able to get any unit to regenerate during combat, it would first be Trolls and Rock Trolls. |
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Post by Boaster on Apr 21, 2005 16:18:43 GMT -6
Well, I have successfully done a trial run with Demons and Fire Elementals scalding enemies 10% of the time. So this is something that is definitely doable.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 21, 2005 20:30:58 GMT -6
Spells are only cast upon melee attack, never ranged.
1 in 2 = 50%
1 in 3 = 33%
1 in 4 = 25%
1 in 5 = 20%
1 in 10 = 10%
1 in 20 = 5%
1 in 25 = 4%
1 in 30 = 3.33%
1 in 40 = 2.5%
1 in 50 = 2%
1 in 100 = 1%
Fire Elementals and Demons have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Scald upon attacking.
Water Elementals have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Minor Rust upon attacking.
Shamblers have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Entangle upon attacking.
Golems have a 1 in 30 chance to cast Slow upon defending.
Ogres have a 1 in 3 chance to have Blind Rage cast upon himself when attacked.
Shades have a 1 in 5 chance to Poison a unit in melee when attacking.
Air Elementals have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Stun upon attacking.
Will'o Wisps have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Lightning upon attacking (might not work).
Stags and Gargoyles have a 1 in 5 chance to cast Crush upon attacking.
Earth Worms have a 1 in 25 chance of casting Aftershock upon attacking.
Dryads, when attacked, have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Pacify upon the attacker.
Unicorns have a 1 in 20 chance to cast Blessing upon itself when attacked.
Sea Serpents have a 1 in 50 chance to cast Freeze upon attacking.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 21, 2005 23:36:55 GMT -6
I'm considering changing all of them to a 1% chance of procing.
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Post by lAncien on Apr 22, 2005 1:17:21 GMT -6
I like the spell choices! Very good, you expanded on the thought beautifully.
I especially liked the Shambler's Entangle, the Great Worm's Aftershock, and the Dryad's Pacify.
1% would be fine, I'm not trying to unbalance the game, but magic creatures should have special effects (magic!) at least rarely.
Could you give the halbardiers and giants a range of two with a ranged attack equal (or similar) to their melee attack, and with the melee animation instead of a missile animation?
On movement, I was mainly thinking that dark riders (including earth's dark riders) should be faster than most other cavalry (though not faster than life or air cavalry). Also, I think the movement is a question of whether an army with a certain type of unit should be able to overtake armies with different types of units. For example, could an earth army with dwarves overtake an army from a different faith if they both went full movement with no magic? Would an army with dwarves be able to stay ahead of another army without magic?
Overall, I really prefer the higher and more consistent movement you implemented, because it was really frustrating when adding a single unit to an army was enough to cut its movement by a third. But for cases of chasing or following other units around in the overland, I think some interesting effects could be achieved by having some units be faster or slower than equivalent units of other faiths, by just a small amount, and with differences only between broad categories.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 22, 2005 10:19:38 GMT -6
Earth Infantry (16 mps) will be out moved on overland against any Cavalry, or Life or Death Infantry.
Air, Earth, Life, and Death Cavalry travel at the same speed in combat. However, Earth and Death Cavalry are a bit more equipt for war so they're stronger.
I have no plans of changing the /frames_per_grid data inside the unit dats. Frames_per_grid determines how fast a unit moves in combat.
Eagles and Elven Warlord/Patriarch are the fastest units with 3 frames_per_grid.
I will think that I will make such things a 1% or 2% chance. But I think the Earth Worm will stay at 5%. I might change the Sea Serpents attack to the Erosion spell rather than freeze.
Anyways, right now the GS5B should have the listed changes. I updated it last night, and won't be messing with it probably until late tonight or tomorrow.
Also, as far as the Stone Giants and Halberdiers have ranged attacks... that would not be plausable for two reasons.
First, if Halberdiers were to have a ranged melee attack, they would not be able to use Berserk. Secondly, getting their attack and ranged attack values to be the same would be next to impossible.
Also, Stone Giants already have a ranged attack.
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Post by Belial on Apr 23, 2005 13:35:19 GMT -6
The mod itself is very interesting and I applaud the efforts of making magic units more valuable.
One thing I did notice is now that they do level, they seem to not change in combat statistics too much (perhaps changed in the newer version beta?) and I also forsee them being slightly stronger or, at least, balanced to the regular units.
For instance, dryads were worthless to the player to have simply because once elven archers could be trained at level three+ the combat statistics were stronger than dryads. Magic creatures should always have a purpose and should always be usable by both player and AI as the AI is programmed to use them. I would consider making second level magic units slightly stronger than regular level five units and completely rework level eight magic units. I have yet to see an AI with level eight magic units minus fire with fire daemons.
The AI has always been predictable and certain faiths always overpower other because of simple programming: autocalculate. Autocalc is very basic and could use another look at (if plausible), death, fire, life, and air all do so well for a couple reasons. They're versatile meaning they can travel and hit a level one cave nearly every turn. They're total attack is far superior to that of faiths who tend to have luck or higher defensive units. Now while other faiths can be strong - it still takes them an undesirable time to do so. AIs that take their temple on turn fifty are rediculous when most skilled players can take it before day seven to obtain a major follower bonus. Another dominating trait the AI has is that it places all its followers into fame which is good for the long game, but when units are needed early on - notsogood simply because of economical difficulties. My best fix to this thus far is to give the AI lots of income buildings which made every faith nearly the same (power-wise). On a side note, kudos to the map editor - saved me hours of translating and provided much quicker results.
Chaos was another faith that peaked my interest. Certainly my most favorable to play because of the challenging starts it could acquire - however in the right hands of a skilled player, the faith is very unbalanced and powerful. Against player-to-player interaction, if none could pose a threat to me as chaos within the first two weeks - the game was all but over. Minor fate, luck, proper unit placement made this faith very powerful. How to fix? Couldn't provide any probable solution, but should probably be noted.
While the game is solely based on magic, however the use of it is devestating. The AI use of magic is pathetic compared to player use. It just does not seem right that a party of three mages with not a single other unit can kill an entire faith with spells and striking the lord. A quick fix to this would be to offer spells that grant magical protection for every faith (very big addition, but probably needed in the rework) and to have little to no affect on enemy leaders above in level.
AI use of legendary creatures is also problematic. Sole units such as fafnir and ice drake are fine - but when a faith creatures a legendary creature that is not - it will not add it to a party, but instead send it off on its own - usually to die. I was quite shocked to see Lancelot try to take the chaos city all by himself.
Back to magical creatures, my insights were to give them magic-like properties (which you already have) and make them much more diverse and needed vs. regular units. Dryads could maintain their current fireball-looking attack while every-so-often, get a chance to fire a spirit arrow. Shamblers with entangle is a neat idea - but perhaps expand on the idea? What good is the unit entangled when it's already beating on the shambler - I highly doubt the AI plans to move it anytime soon (although possible, I've seen the AI do quite a few odd things). Perhaps damage shields may be in line?
There are a few other quirks I saw, but I think this is plenty to digest for the next couple days. All-in-all, I am very pleased with the amount of effort put into the game - one that I will probably never put away.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 23, 2005 14:20:57 GMT -6
Since a couple of months ago, I changed the level up mods of all creature units. What I did was, I removed any strength, dexterity, or wisdom bonuses they previously recieved. Now, creature units gain 1 of each stat, except str, dex, wis, each level, and gain 4 hp each level.
This was done for future references. Now, the peek level stats of tier 1 and 2 creature units are exactly where they need to be for the recent addition of casting spells on attack.
As far as your suggestion for dryads, this cannot be done sadly. The reason behind this is that when a creature attacks the spells will only proc when a melee attack is made. Why this is, I do not know. So, whenever Shades do a melee attack, they have a 1 in (5 or 10?) chance to Poison (not decay) a unit. Shades recieve 25% more damage from melee attacks, but 50% less from missile attacks.
As far as the AI's casting ability, there is little I can do to change how they select their spells. However, I can limit the uses of most spells to certain events. Such as if you get to close to a Necromancer, he'll cast Lost Soul.
As far as the AI or a player using High level mages as Assassins, that is totally legit. However, I have corrected some problems with mages that made them overbearing (i.e. overland attack spells). Overland attack spells can only reduce a party's HP to half of its max, and if the party's life points are less than max, they will go to half. I redesigned overland attack spells to be more defensive than offensive. But as far as a player using high level mages with lots of magic to devestate, it is completely fair. It takes a lot to get high level mages. And with time, energy, and patience will come much power.
If you and I were to play this very mod, I could beat you as Chaos with any other faith. Probably since I've been editing the game so much I know most of the ins, outs, and counters.
Heres something you might want to highly consider with Lords of Magic: "Mix, don't mass." Shamblers can be quite good with other units. Shamblers could attack a single unit, have him eventually entangled, and strike another unit. They can disable a unit more or less.
Legendary Creatures are meant to be powerful. You will see that the Ice Drake and Fafnir will now be able to join parties, but look at their cost. In multi player, it may be quite hard to come up with 500 crystals, and 200 gold and ale, all the while costing 5 followers, and then costing 5 crystals, gold, and ale per turn. Each Legendary Creature has a special ability. Fire and Air Legendary Dragon have Breath, Hydra triples its damage output, Earth Worm now has a chance to cause Aftershocks (1 to 4 damage to all enemies), Spiders have Web, Lich casts spells and now has life stealing like a vampire, Phoenix is now ranged and is revived if your party eventually wins, and Lancelot is a Champion that can wield artifacts and rally troops.
All faith movement points are roughly the same. Life has more movement points to make up for lesser combat stats. They're based on speed and mobility. Some Death units have more movement than normal (necromancer and halberdiers only). Air units have more movement; Giants take big steps, Faeries and Eagles fly a good distance. Fire has more movement, but only with their Giants (Warrior, Mage, and Hurlers). Earth, Order, Water, and Chaos have roughly the same movement points. I don't see any problems.
Level 5 Dryads are roughly the equivalant of 2 Shades in my mod.
Also, if you want to defeat Legendary Creatures, the best way to beat them is with magic (and definitely magic of the opposite faith).
If you're only playing the game on Easy, do not complain. With this mod, if you play on Hard mode, all other faiths start with their temples, a phat garrison in their cities and temples. Play on Hard if you're not getting enough of a challenge.
Keep playing the mod. You will adapt and you will come to recognize many of the changes were for the betterment of the game.
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Post by Belial on Apr 24, 2005 21:11:02 GMT -6
The aforementioned for adding abilities to magical creatures was not just for dryads, but all magical creatures alike. As stated, understandably - they cannot be. However, I still revert to what the subject was in that magical creatures are too weak. Another similar comparison would be that a shambler is (roughly) 16 attack and 9 defense with 36 hitpoints (or was around level three), at level 5 - its statistics are the same but with more hitpoints and statistical bonuses while level five units of any other melee type is in pairs of three and usually just one of the unit in the set can do the same as the magical creature. My main concern with this is that the AI refuses to understand this and will always have a few magical creatures in their parties and is now, they are much weaker units compared to what a set of units can do.
AI choice of magic is was also not what I was pointing out but what player magic can do. Let me provide an example - a party of three mages of level two+ of nearly every faith can have bare mininum of five mana, that's four of the weakest spells per mage and 12 shots of magic for just a party of three mages. 12*3 is simple mathematics and 36 damage and with a couple sets of mages, that is clearly a dead lord regardless of class or faith. One could argue that the cost of mages would be expensive, but money is nearly never an issue in player vs. player and to afford two parties of three sets of mercenary mages for a sole purpose is rediculously cheap and in fact, overpowering. In fact, the remaining gurus actually made sets of rules to abide to add to the flavor and challenge to the game; one being no mercenary of any kind allowed or trading to the AI.
Mixing is good for a variety of reasons, however mixing with magical creatures has always been bad which is what I was, more-or-less, trying to say. The AI receives a program of what unit(s) to attack as soon as they charge - there is ways to counter them and ways to prepare for them. Using the shambler for defense (which is what it is used in most cases) is less appealing with the entangle ability. When it is already defending from an attacking unit, entangle does very little to stop it from doing its sole purpose: attack. The AI will attack anything it can touch when it is entangled so regardless if the rest of the set receives a program to attack flanking units, the one that is entangled will continue to attack whatever it can reach.
The use of legendary creatures is by no means a problem for the player, but truly appauling to the AI. As stated, once the AI creates a legendary creature, it will not join a party regardless of what kind and instead, it will roam the map on its own seeking whatever destination to, pending on what type, die.
As far as movement goes, try to compare what the AI does and how much two movement points makes a difference to the long-game as opposed to short game. The change is very devestating to AI strength. When I play the AI, I do not play to kill the AI anymore, but rather see how long I can keep them alive and going and how powerful I can make them.
Also note - AIs that take their temple are much stronger than AIs that already have it taken. AIs that take their temple on turn fifty are generally playing off hard difficulty as well and the units garrisoned in each city/temple is of no match for the player or at least a player with my potential. It only makes it more difficult for the AI to capture cities/temple (in which case, is better as AIs fall apart after they acquire a second city).
To vouch for my playing style, I need nothing more than my starting units and temple units to clear a level 11 with any faith. Mumm-Ra was also a foe on a regular basis and you can ask him how he fared.
-B
P.S. I'm not downgrading the mod at all, it has many good quirks too it, but there is still more than a handful of things that are wrong with the original lomse and I'm only making suggestions towards it.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 24, 2005 22:44:21 GMT -6
Belial, there is not much I can do to the AI. I've only been able to change two things. 1. Spell choices in pre-programed situations, and 2. who starts with their temple and capital on any of the difficulties.
One thing I can say about the AI is that it recognizes which of its units are strongest and uses those. For instance, Chaos now uses Raiders and Stick Throwers because it knows that Raiders have high attack power and Stick Throwers have fast attack speed.
If you read my post previous this one, I said that in my mod ALL faiths, except the human player, all start with their temple and capital with a beefy garison.
As far as 3 level 2 mercenary mages taking out a lord, I would advise steering clear of an enemy town with magi. However, I will be working on fixing the costs of champion units. I have already adjusted the costs of Legendaries (except for Lancelot, which won't budge for some reason), cavalry, infantry, missile units, and tier 1 and 2 creatures.
I cannot help the AI's use of legendary creatures.
I did not edit this game strictly for the AI. I made many of the changes for player vs player.
As far as "gurus" setting rules to add "flavor" most of the rules they probably play by are originally due to me. I knew quite a few exploits in the game, and I know them very well even now. I have worked towards cutting out such exploits with the overland spells.
Try to clear a level 11 dungeon on hard mode, using my mod, only using your starting party + temple prisoners. You will not succeed.
I don't think you're downgrading it. I think you're trying to convince me to change some things because they don't exactly match up with what you're used to (maybe). The original LOMSE no longer applies while my mod is around. And what exactly are you suggesting? I'm not reading anything that directly says "make Creatures weaker" or anything.
As far as Shamblers being level 5 and 16/9, and groups of two... what you don't see is their physical and magical resistances. Creatures are generally 25% to 100% more vulnerable to the opposite magic, and just the opposite towards its own magic type.
Shamblers vs Dwarven Infantry (Level 5, both)
Shamblers:
14/11, 2 units, 34 life each (68 combined)
11 attack recovery ticks
0 hit recovery ticks
33% melee and missile resistance
Chance to cast Entangle on attack
Dwarven Infantry
19/5, 3 units, 33 life each (99 combined)
6 attack recovery ticks
2 hit recovery ticks
33% melee resistance
Who would win? Infantry. But Shamblers are more versatile. Dwarven Infantry will lose to Missile attacks more than Shamblers will. And once a Shambler entangles a Missile unit, it cannot run away.
There are a lot of uses for all the units in the game now, rather than a certain faith only having 2 valid units for game play.
The GS5 is still in its Beta stage. If you want to play me through Kali, we can work out the kinks. I think any faith now is valid and has a potential for great power.
[By the way], you two post quite often. Why not sign up? You can pick cool avatars, or use your own. ;D
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Post by Belial on Apr 25, 2005 14:37:42 GMT -6
I mainly haven't signed up because I can't find the reply button but have to use the quote button instead.  The new rules were made because of The Seer and I and were in the late-game life stage of LOMSE. Orchist abhored them because his entire gameplay was based off of trading and never using his lords party (allbeit strong, but never used aggressively) to win games and instead would gather a party of magical creatures or some interesting exploit that would kill just the lord. Hank, aka: Staalker tried to copy Legolas who had a fair knowledge about combat, but still no match for Seer and I; his thief-only combat worked well in the beginning stages but was soon ruined as better players worked the system which is what ultimately lead to him quitting. Graffix played with a lot of units who wasn't affraid to use them, but typically not aggressively. He, too, relied heavily on trading and buying legendary units early in the game to try and win. Hence, combat became more important and thus he quit as he began to lose more. The Seer is probably the only person who qualified as an equal to me. Speed in the game is killer, who ever has more will ultimately win. A very broad example is just comparing the AI and the player and the player is typically 250% times better and with average mathematic knowledge, I'm sure the formula can be solved. Level 11's or 15's for that matter are no match regardless of how the stat of each units are. Spells, AI weakness, and overall knowing every exploit in actual combat easily renders it defeatable with starting units. Not much more can I say other than show or for you to try yourself. As far as mercenary mages, I think my point is getting closer to being seen. It's not just near cities that mercenary mages become a problem. But just sending them straight at another lord to solely kill them. With movement spell(s) and location of the lord, it's very cheap (in cost) to kill a lord that way. My original assumption with magical creatures is that they did not gain any attributal benifits in which case, I was wrong. Perhaps it was with missile creatures? I remember putting a lot of effort into making them stronger only to see their overall strength unnoticable other than added hitpoints. Maybe they should be weaker than level five units, I would assume that would be up to you to decide; it just seems illogical for me to have a inferior unit taking up space in a massive army. As far as AI, the only real weakness they have overland is autocalculate. Slower faiths (in movement) take longer to take caves therefor are always weaker in the long-game. Player advantage comes into play when they can take caves without losing a single hitpoint (typical situation is champion warrior defends every melee blow and the rest of the units clean-up) while in autocalculate, the weakest units take damage spread equally amongst. The AI recognizes this and knows its abilities as to where they won't lose a unit in autocalculate so will rest until healed or enough hitpoints are gained so they can take the next cave. The AI can not enter the city to buy hitpoints either as the garrisoned units never leave. From what I have seen thus far, the only way to fix the AI is to fix autocalculate to correctly distrubute damage to the right units; consider highest defending units to take damage equally amongst and compared to the highest attack units in the cave. Plausible? Perhaps, I have some knowledge of coding, but have no program to actually see how it works or else I would have fixed this eons ago. The best fix to AI legendary use is two solutions. Single party legendaries or the innability to create one. If every faith is to start with their legendary creature, I would also advise putting it in the city garrison as opposed to temple garrison as the city is much more important to an AI faith than a temple garrison is. A few other things that peaked my interest was riding units vs. standing units. In the mod, riding units are the only units worth the buy - perhaps this was intended, but if not then a change to counter this? Perhaps standing units more defense (pending on faith), and hitpoints? Or some formula to properly balance them. Most typical online players play with speed and therefor regardless of how much better a walking unit was, it was not ordinarilly used. I'm not sure why elves were lowered in range damage; they are very fragile units but as I'm sure you're aware - almost all players deem them the most powerful ranged units which is not the case. In ranged, they are superior, but with an army of speed or magic, elven troops die very fast. The last guru, "Guru Slayer" had a very interesting way of discovring that. Unless all ranged units were weakened across the board, I feel that elven archers were weakend slightly too much. As for Kali - I'm more than willing to give it a shot, however I have a very busy time-schedule so making time is always the hardest part. I'm still trying to get a hold of The Seer as him and I were probably what kept the online game going the longest. -B |
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Post by Boaster on Apr 25, 2005 16:43:38 GMT -6
The reply buttons are on the top and bottom of the pages. The legendaries in the city garrisons is a good idea, I like it. There is nothing I can do about the AI. You might be suprised how strong archers actually are when compared to other units. Lets compare missile units: Level 1 Archers · 1/1 attack/armor; 6/12 ranged attack/missile range; 18 group hp; 33% missile resistance. 20/5 attack speed/hit recovery (lower the better). Javelins · 2/2; 9/8; 24 group hp; No physical resistances. 25/5 attack/recovery. Faeries · 1/1; 5/11; 15 group hp; 50% missile resistance, -25% melee resistance. 10/10 attack/recovery. Stick Throwers · 3/1l 4/10; 45 group hp; No physical resistances. 10/5 attack/recovery. Axe Throwers · 1/4; 10/6; 36 group hp; No physical resistances. 30/5 attack/recovery. Rock Hurlers · 5/2; 12/4; 25 group hp; -25% missile resistance, +25% melee resistance. 30/3 attack/recovery. Crossbow Men · 1/3; 10/8; 30 group hp; No physical resistances. 30/5 attack/recovery. Lizard Slingers · 2/2; 8/8; 36 group hp; No physical resistances. 23/5 attack/recovery. Beyond stick throwers and fae slingers, they are the fastest with the best range attack and missile range for their speed. They also have missile resistance. And any unit with high missile power will have low missile range. Javelineers are tied with Archers in my opinion, and Crossbowmen are strong but slow with repetetive fire. If/When we play, Mercenaries will be allowed. Trading with Faith AI is debatable. All spells: not all, but most (15). Resources (50 or 0). When I play, I play with the absolute greatest difficulty/challenge. Now that you know where the reply button is (top and bottom of thread) sign up why don't ya  . |
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Post by l'Ancien on Apr 25, 2005 19:02:11 GMT -6
I see. The ranged attack for those units was an idea, but I see the problem. Oh well.
Movement's OK. It was more in the direction of a suggestion than a requirement.
I think that the surprise magic on the magic creatures will make them more useful even or especially combined with other armies, even if their stats aren't much better.
I think erosion would be better than freeze too. (Not much point to having the sea serpent spend the rest of the fight chewing an icicle, now, is there?)
If you changed the hard starting settings, can you tweak the intro text to explain it correctly? I normally click past it pretty quickly, but sometimes I stop to remind myself of who's got their temple already. Since Death on Hard always started with everyone ready, you can copy some of the text from there, maybe.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 25, 2005 19:51:13 GMT -6
Excellent suggestion with the Hard mode text.
I tried to adjust the ranged attack of Missile groups in accordance to their models/projectiles. Axes obviously hurt if thrown at a person, as well as Lava Rocks. But whose to say an Arrow isn't just as painful at great velocity? I did the best I could.
Yes, Erosion is likely going to be replacing Freeze on the Sea Serpents attack.
Erosion, against Non-Fire units, reduces the units armor by: (Caster Level x 0.5).
Erosion against Fire units reduces the units armor by: (Caster Level x 0.75).
Level 15 Lord casting Erosion will reduce a units armor by 7.5 (or 8) and 11.25 (or 11) against Fire units, but will not reduce below 0.
Things I will be changing:
· Legendary from Temple to City Garrison.
· Champion costs (I planned to awhile back).
· Fixing texts for Hard mode, and medium as well.
I think Medium is the "old" hard mode, and Hard is the "new" hard mode. Easy is still Easy.
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Post by Belial on Apr 25, 2005 21:17:09 GMT -6
When comparing missile units, it's vital to know how much defense they have and compared to at max level.
That's my main concern is that when the lines fall in front of the archers or if they're flanked, they're nothing more than a few chops; fae slingers are the same but should be with their ability to fly. Every other missile unit has nearly twice the chance to fend off flanking enemies.
Granted, they're not used for the brunt force nor are they suppose to be good against melee units, but an entire set can be taken down with how fragile they are.
If we do play, it will be moreso to show what can and can not be done in the game. Judging by how confident you are, I hope not to suprise you with too many things.
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Post by Boaster on Apr 25, 2005 23:45:44 GMT -6
I've only been suprised once in multiplayer. It was versus Ashgan. He caught me offguard by sandstorming my army to an oblivion.
My confidence only comes from experience, no where else really.
Attack/Armor on a ranged unit should not be of great importance because Ranged units play a supporting role to melee. Its not really about ranged craft, heh.
We'll just have to wait and see. I'd suggest playing the mod for awhile longer before playing multiplayer, so you get used to it.
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Post by Belial on Apr 26, 2005 14:15:35 GMT -6
Attack and armor is not a main factor of ranged units, however it is very important when they're actually being hit.
As stated, they're not made to take melee damage which is obvisouly shown with stats; the idea is that they either have enough time to run away, fend off invaders, or hold out long enough for reinforcements to arrive.
Life archers reign supreme in fending off flanking units, which is how they should be while javelins and crossbows (who also do a fair amount of damage) can take a little up-close action. A mix of low hitpoints and armor typically means dead units in a hurry.
As I stated - the main part of the game is based on speed. Overland and in player vs. player. This does lead to the issue with lag as well, but that's equally spread amongst each player.
On a different note, I've managed to get a hold of The Seer again, so we can get his input too as I still feel he was the better player of me and him.
… okay, back to topic again. Have you adjusted artifacts as well? Dragonscale armor, for example is extremely overpowered.
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